Division in the Hunting Community: Can We Unite?

Division in the Hunting Community: Can We Unite?
We will always have different opinions, but is there a way for the hunting community to identify a few issues we agree on and build a foundation from there? Set aside differences to find a common thread and stand on common ground…Today we are tackling this challenging topic in what we believe is a very respectable conversation in attempt to unite, not divide hunters. #elkshape

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We're doing an noshape podcast but we're Doing it at the podium Archer podcast Studio what's up Josh Jones oh just Another glorious day in paradise Daniel What's up Jeffrey dods howdy howdy Jeff This your first week working for me Fulltime you are part of the oak shape Team this is day three how's the pace It's it's fast but I like it it's fun It's you you never know what to expect One day you're in in a serious Negotiation contract meeting the next Year tinkering with bow so yeah it's It's a good time nice and we're doing The December chub challenge I'm trying This is be like probably the last week You can jump in if you are hearing this And you're like what is the December Chub challenge year three it's a free Workout Challenge on Instagram check it Out hunt loudly or hunt quietly have you Heard of this hunt quietly I have no Idea what you're talking about that's Cool I like that have you yes I don't Like to shine a spotlight on the Individual responsible for hunt quietly But I am man enough to admit that he's Got some valid points and then um I Think he's off as rocker on other things I want to unite hunters in 2024 it's well I've been working on this All year and it's not working so I guess I'm going to have to carry it over to 2024 and 2025 and 2026 we got a lot of

Division in the in the hunting space Even in the Archer Community right like There's a lot of division like you shoot This and I shoot that oh there's there's Always hate no matter what you do and It's it's a very difficult thing to Grasp because it's it's misplaced it's Always misplaced it's some Focusing on the wrong things in life Let's just say and it's a it's a sad State that our society is in in our World isn't and it's it's a bold thing To try to fix it but it's necessary and We have to keep trying to fix it you got To get people to realize they're looking And focusing on the wrong things and There's a lot right a lot of right Things to focus on to make you feel a Lot better about your life in general I Feel that I would say uh to give context To this Conversation what kind of got me fired Up as a couple incidences Lately we did the uh keep hammering week With the December chub Challenge and cuz Cam has always helped me out with this Challenge I don't know why like Seriously like why help me out you're Like his little brother he's got 1.5 Million followers on Instagram I have Like whatever eight like not even 100 Thousand and um I ask him out of like CU I have a cell phone number I've had it Since probably 2006 like we've been

Knowing each other a long time and uh he I just text him I'm like hey I'm doing The chub challenge you want to do it Again this year and he's always like Absolutely and it's like wow it's really Cool because like he's a pretty busy guy Right yeah and he's like I'll do it and I'll give away a bow every year all These guys got to do is lift run shoot Do what I do do what I've been doing Forever for a week and I think people Start to realize like it's kind of a Grind to to make sure you shoot your Boow every day oh yeah for sure oh and You got to get run in and you got to Lift and running and lifting is Something that's tough to blur together So that usually means two different Workouts in the same and you still try To like pay your bills and go to your Job and run your kids to soccer practice So it's been cool to see all these People in the month that's Historically dark gloomy and Unmotivating and you kind of push those Goals off to the New Year people like Getting so the reason why I bring up cam Is like we're doing this chub challenge He's helping out the week it's his week He's giving away a bow uh and then I Read in this Forum on Randy newberg's got a forum It's called hunt talk okay and I wish They had moderators there because the

People there I think there's not very Many people first and foremost forums Were were built in the 90s and I used to Go to hunting forums because there Wasn't Facebook or YouTube or podcasts Yeah but there's still a small Percentage of people that like to go go To hunting forums like to call those Keyboard Warriors oh man there's good People on all forums too but yeah anyway Keyboard Warrior doesn't necess bad yeah Totally the week we do the keep Hammering week there's like this whole Thread of uh a guy named Matt ranella Who is related to Steve ranella okay him And cam are kind of going back and forth At each other and add context I think Matt doesn't like me I've seen I've Heard him mention my name once or twice He did a case study on you case study on Me or whatever did he yeah whatever I Wow what did that entail no no no don't Loss over that I want to know what that Entailed he read you in a textbook it Wasn't very factual um he didn't say my Last name properly but I think he was Trying to say that someone like me could Hire people and like grow Their audience And put out content and kill for content And kill too many elk in a year And um pick post grip and grins which is Going to be seen by strangers who don't Hunt and maybe don't want to see that Okay or okay I ion have you ever shot

Four in a year once once I was going to Say I don't think you've ever shot four In a year but maybe once I think the First year I did three in a year was 2011 okay I I drew a special tag and I Bought two Idaho tags at a G station Well I say I can say in all authen Authenticity a family of four if they're Eating it regularly can eat three elk in A year and eat the whole thing so too Many elk how many people are you Feeding right like where does that come From honestly I I think his point is That a lot of guys in my Situation gobble up Tags and for themselves and they need to Fill up a schedule of content around These hunts and I don't want to dive Into the Weeds on it I want to get to The point so so he's got this movement Called hunt quietly and I really have Avoided talking about him because I just Don't want to give him attention but I Also want him to know that hey he's a Hunter and so I respect him because I Want Hunters to be United you know what I mean and I'm not going to clown on him I think I do think if he does Listen to I would find it very easy to make fun of Him and to and to insult him I have Plenty to say about that but I think It's childish I would not I would say Man I I respectfully disagree with some Of your opinions but I do also think

Some of your opinions hold some water Into the and we need to talk about that On this podcast but my point was him and Camera going back and forth this week And I'm seeing all the people pile on um Mat side like cam Camy juice cam take Steroids cam what all started this was That cam was on Joe Rogan's podcast Recently yeah listen and there was a Snippet where Joe was like Hey all you Dumb asses if the trail head's too busy Just move to a different TR go to a Different trail head yeah I heard that And I didn't listen to that podcast but If you just listen to that clip without Any context that would make me angry I'm A public land huner I agree I agree that Was I I heard him say that and my like Dude you've have you really experienced That do you know what that really means I don't think you quite understand that And you know in in the defense of Joe Joe lives in a different world than we Live in I don't think he's ever truly Experienced what he's talking about There cuz it does seem like a simple Solution well if there's a whole bunch Of people here go somewhere else right Well it doesn't necessarily work like That I mean there's only so many Trail Heads and so many places where you can Get into where there is realistic Activity so that was it was a poor Choice of words from someone that

Probably doesn't fully understand what That's like I can't disagree but I do Think I keep on want to say Steve it's Not St it is Steve rell's brother I Don't know if it's older or younger Brother but it's probably not a very Comfortable situation to go to Thanksgiving dinner with both those at The table I don't know if they're Actually even they're probably arranged Honestly that would make sense but I I Don't care either way it's none of my Business quite honestly but what I Wanted to say was like I think I Saw um cam post a bunch of screenshots Of what Matt's been posting and I guess Matt's Got a shirt that says stop Hammering where do I buy that shirt I'll Buy that shirt I'll buy it right now do What is what's the website I'll look That up right now I don't know but it's I think it's $22 I don't pay for it oh Fck I'm going to where is it why are you Going to buy this Shirt cuz I oh that's hilarious it is That's hilarious I don't think cam Thinks it's very funny kind of like oh No oh come on c c cam like cam can Just nobody nobody cares work harder Right no no like why do you care Cam's Too busy doing cam things he Cam's cam You're like way above that like just Ignore him right so ignore him but the

Point of all this like them going back And forth was really making me scratch My head it's like there's a 330 million I bet there's more people living in the United States of America And there's only 14 to 16 million of Those are Hunters what's 14 million Divided 330 million Josh my numbers guy Is that 3% 4% no four four hold on 14 From 300 hold on give me no hang on 10 It's like it's 4% or 5% it's not more Than 5% it's 4% okay yeah give or take We have all these Hunters but really we Don't have that many Hunters it's a Small percentage of the population and It's a small perc percentage of the Population to the extent that they Shouldn't be bickering with each other Right they should be all arguing the Same thing like why why get upset at Somebody for being able to procure more Tags if that's their passion and that's Their effort I don't that doesn't make Sense to me at all they want life to be Fair and I'm here to tell you guys it's Not fair now don't pick this apart but Like I don't live in a fair World there Are the halves and have knots I want More of the have knots to have Opportunity I get it like access like Public land access private land access More tax for everybody but at the end of The Day it's never going to be fair well but

The point the point that really is Relevant one it's not it's not Necessarily going to be fair but two There's only X number of tags available In a non-resident quota system right so You buying four doesn't change how many People are hunting in fact it lowers the Number of people that are hunting so if Your complaint is it's not fair that one Guy gets so many hunting opportunities It's not hurting the next guy's hunting Opportunity it's not other than there's One less tag available right but if you Really are are dying for a tag you can Get one you just have to be able to plan For it and prepare for it is you know From what I understand their arguments Are a lot more to do With I mean it has something to do with That you shouldn't only hunt get I don't Know what their numbers are but like Gobbling up all the tags is not cool to Them um hunting uh not advocating for Conservation and buying a tag is not Conservation like actionable steps to Help secure animals longevity um they Talk about so we talked about land Access like lots of land is getting Leased up to private entities sure right Y door knocking you're going to find Yourself knocking on a door and be like I used to give permission but now this Guy's paying me you know thousands of Dollars a lease up my land U sorry and

That's that's kind of like capitalism Quite honestly like there's supply and Demand and someone's willing to pay for Something there's a value there right oh For sure sucks right cuz i' I grew up Hunting public land and if I did ever Hunt private land it's cuz I knocked on The door with both kids in my arms and Maybe a gift back basket and offering to Do some work around the place but I Wasn't in a position to I've just never I've never leased land quite honestly Never have um doesn't say I wouldn't Though but that's kind of their main Argument is like they the goblin up of Tags and the killing for Content the Posting of things on um social platforms Where strangers can see and Incentivizing the sell of Commercialization of hunting so that you Can push products you know so I'm just Giving you their side sure and then I'm Just kind of telling you Like their deliver is pretty bad in Their in my opinion it's pretty it can Be harsh it'd be hard to stomach sure And it does create division sure and so I wanted to see if we could brainstorm Round Table is there a way to like Validate some of their points encourage Them to police within our industry so That if there is someone filming Something absolutely terrible and Distasteful and it does nothing good

That we get we message the crap out of That person priv like hey man take that Down that's not cool that doesn't put Honey in a good light true and then Maybe that guy's like or gal is like That's my bad there's always going to be B apples but is there a way for us to Validate some of their points but also Remind them that we are so small in Numbers cuz Peta is not bickering Amongst themselves no anti-hunters are So unified and dialed with their message And they have strength and numbers and They have Deep Pockets and then we have the rest of the Uninitiated indifferent US population That doesn't hate hunting but does isn't Anti-hunting and those are the ones that We want to at least know about hunting In all the positives that go with it Sure so what is there what are some ways That we could heck maybe bring the Community together versus creating so Many subdivisions that we're never G Like it's just a losing battle for Everybody right does have anything to Say about that you go go uh so well the I would say the first the first Complaint you know what or maybe we Should break down the lists of the Things that they're saying and address Them one at a time okay uh might be Smarter but I would start with saying so They're up said about hunting

Opportunities not being as good is that Part of it yeah right so why aren't Hunting opportunities as good is it Mismanaged by fishing game would that be Why hunting opportunities aren't as good A higher population of hunters you know The growth of hunting has expanded R3 Movement BG BS bugs them down quite a Bit it's it the uh well growth of Hunters is an arguable thing because Statistically hunting has been Decreasing every year up until 3 years Ago so how can you complain about that If you're saying that oh there's more Hunters there's more Hunters well there Hasn't been for like ever since I've Been in this industry it's been in a Declining industry like the number of People hunting every year year after Year after year was getting smaller and The average age was getting a year older Every year which means we weren't Bringing in younger people into the Sport so only in the last three years Has it gone up and it hasn't gone up Drastically so I don't think that's Actually an accurate argument I really Don't I think the real argument is that Our game our fishing game systems have Been poorly managed and hunted and Hunted and hunted without accurate Management any any state that lets any Resident buy a tag no matter what isn't Managing their state there's because

There's no way they effectively know how Many animals they have so my my argument Would be why are you getting mad at the Guy that's paying in ordinate amount of Money for an Out ofate Tag to hunt in an Area when the only reason your area Isn't good is cuz it's not being managed Properly that's not your fault that's Not my fault that's not your fault That's fish and game's fault and you Need to take that question to them cuz If we're just pointing the finger at Each other because of the type of Hunting we're doing we're not going to Get anywhere where's the management Coming from and what's really the Problem I think their message from what I can tell has really good intentions Like but how it comes across is like Basically like I don't want hunting Shared I want to keep it a secret I want It all to myself I want a better Experience I don't want everyone knowing About it because of social media Platforms or whatever mhm and I get that To a degree cuz man like there was a Point in my time in where I was just um Pretty salty that I'd see hunting Celebrities going to these ranches Killing the best elk and then I'm over Here cutting my teeth Blue Collar style Hunting although I'm not blue collar um Just doing that grind and I can see to a Point but the bigger picture to me is

Like we I do think we're still like on The decline as far as total Hunters go And I do think that mean average age of A hunter is going up every year how old Do you I'm 44 I think you're a couple Years off of the mean average age of Hunters in the United States I am and I Want that number to go down a little bit Yes um if we're going to have hunting But I haven't heard them or anyone Really talk about is the US population Growing is there urban sprawl everywhere I look and now that I'm 42 There Are Places I used to hunt that is now Chocked full of pavement development Houses everywhere sure you don't hunt There cuz there's no tree there's There's no game there it's all houses There's no habitat for animals so Habitat loss is kind of a concern and I Don't think people talk about that as Much yeah um I do think Co did kind of Bump numbers up I mean did you have your Best year in business ever during CO as A archery shop owner since then it's Been drastic increase but one thing you Got to understand as an archery shop Owner is during Co we lost 30% of the Shops so three out of every 10 bow shops Closed within three months dang brutal Right cuz a lot of them were mom and pop Single operator owner no other source of Revenue and the revenue stopped right Right or they were on the verge of

Retirement or closing their doors anyway Or they're you know a lot a lot of shops Can barely get through their 30-day pay Cycle like they're struggling to pay the Bill at the end of 30 days because a lot Of the products that we buy are on a 30-day term so if you take away 30 days Of Revenue 60 days of Revenue they can't Pay their bills they just Clos their Doors I know several of them closed and Just didn't reopen and that forced People to go into other stores because There just weren't other options right So that's part of where our growth came From um on top of my buying habits and Things that I had done up to that point I had product where most other people Didn't and I was reordering product at a Clip that nobody else really was so it Maintained my flow of product so always Had yes this is hindsight speaking it Maintained my flow of product and it Made sure that people could get Something where you couldn't find it Other places so the amount of people That traveled to come buy bows for me And things like that was uh excessive I've never seen it now I do actually Think I'm going to see that again this Year with the demand for the Matthews Product and how hard it's going to be to Get and how many I have on order so um I Expect to see it again in that but in General I don't think you'll ever see it

Again and uh you could actually watch Like the sales of entry-level product Like at the beginning of covid so you Got to understand most people went out To buy a gun and couldn't get a gun so Then they looked at what else can I get Because they started freaking out that I Got to figure out how to hunt because I Went to the store to buy meat and there Wasn't meat yeah that so I need I need To figure out where to go buy meat and I Guarantee you there were probably more People that got Road a ticket for Hunting when there was no hunting season Because they had no idea there were Hunting seasons right but we sold an Immense amount of entry-level product Immense you couldn't hardly give away an Entry level bow a year and a half later Because anybody that had any interest Whatsoever in starting bought a bow and Then if it didn't work out well they Sold it as you used bow so there were so Many entry level bows in circulation it Was Bonkers like nobody's entrylevel Product is doing well CU there's so much Of it out there now now mid-level and Upper level product you know those People who bought entry level bows that Stuck with it are now like okay well This is very basic and I want a more Effective tool So you're going to see that grow but That the entry level was a huge boom but

We probably lost half of them at least I Don't think Idaho has like lowered or Increased the number of non-resident elk Tags they sell each year yeah pre and Postco so I just want to throw that out There but I guess maybe I'll come back To two things and first one I'll address Is like The Surplus killing or whatever I Remember the first year I killed three Bulls in a year I didn't have any Instagram account uh I don't think I had A YouTube account definitely didn't have Elk shape wasn't even started it just I Happened to always I've been buying two El tags in Idaho since I started MH and Then in 2011 I just happened to draw a We should preface that that Idaho had a Certain number of non-resident tags for Sale and at a certain point you could Buy an additional one if they didn't get Sold because they had a quota to sell Which they never did which they never Did you used used to be able to go in December and still buy another tag so Guys would hunt until they killed Something then go buy another tag if it Was still available I've done that in September many times kill thek so you Know that's where that came from is they Had a number of tags that they wanted to Issue an allocate for ethical Harvest And if they didn't get sold a guy who Already bought one could go buy another

One I want to say it was maybe 2017 or 2018 I think I'd killed a bull and I Went down to the old gas station to pick Up a second tag and I remember the lady Saying oh there's only like two left and That was the first year I was like what What so the The following year I had bought my tag And for the first time ever I went and Gambled and bought a second tag when They came on soon as you were allowed to Was that August 1st or was that when Season open it August 1 yeah August 1st So I do want to say like in 2011 I Remember I butchered both two bowls and I planed on eating both two bowls but That third Bowl I was like man I don't Know if I'm going to be able to eat Three elk in a year I remember giving Some to my mom single lady and my dad And then I brought a cooler full of Organic elk meat that I had butchered Myself I brought it to my gym my CrossFit gym which was chocked full of Those people I was talking about that Aren't anti-hunting but they're not Hunters they're indifferent they're Undecided and I announced to everyone Hey this is the elk I killed I want to Come try it it was all gone within two Hours and all these people that have Never hunted never been around hunting Are devouring the elk meat that I Brought and maybe they're just think and

Maybe it's my imagination but in my Opinion I thought maybe they'd be like Maybe hunting's cool like maybe it's an Excellent way to expose somebody to Something you know sneakily but I've Never been like man I got to kill more Elk every year so that more people Follow me or like me or whatever I elk Shape goes away I'm going to elk hunt as Much as possible I am addicted to elk Hunting I can't get enough and if I Couldn't get a tag I'd be the guy out in The woods with a camera and trying to Call for somebody to be a part of that As much as possible my second point I Wanted to bring up Was the whole I think this gets Overlooked by the way and I think you Could do an entire podcast on it but the Thing that causes so much infighting Within our community and maybe any Community is our egos you know the Comparison will always be the thief of Your joy and so if you're Like I guess it's ego so if you're like man F Joe Rogan he goes to the tonne ranch in California writes an $80,000 check and Kills a half-tamed elk every year and Then he goes to Northern Utah spends 25k And kills another Disneyland elk and Then just talks about hunting like he's A this that the other there's some Jealousy going on there I don't know oh

For sure I know that a lot of people Don't want that experience then there's A lot of people that don't want to admit That they would love that experience but How is Joe Rogan GNA go hunt public land He's not right no seriously though yeah He can't like how would Joe Rogan the World's largest podcast yeah the guy's On UFC and was on TV that the have his Security guys work on their cardio you Gonna have a security guy fall around Like you think Joe's gonna be able to Camp at a trail head and walk up no he Can't he's he's a different guy it's no Different than you know any other Celebrity trying to do a normal everyday Part of life they can't I don't know It's not it's not a knock on Joe there's There's something I want to address here That you brought up about like the the The premise that they're upset that People are P are publishing their Hunting success on social media so I am A staunch believer that we need to grow As many people into hunting as humanly Possible I'm into that right U for our Longevity of survival right if we don't Have enough voices like you said 4% we Need that to look like 20% if we want to Have a prayer that our kids or our Grandkids or our great grandkids will Have an opportunity to hunt in this Country we need enough percentage of the Public to be able to vote in a positive

Way for hunting the only way you're Going to do that is if you expose more People in a positive way to hunting and Like it or not from whatever Source this Is that doesn't like This more people have gotten into Hunting because of seeing that than not That's what they're upset about well Then I don't know what to tell you You're not going to have hunting in 10 Or 20 years if we don't get more people Into it so you're upset about your Hunting opportunities how would you like No hunting opportunities y if we don't Get more people in the sport we are All period we are 4% voting for Something when 30% doesn't think you Should be allowed to hunt period ever Minimum there's only 4% of you saying Yes when 30% are guaranteed going to say No how you going to fix that how you Going to change that it's not going to Be by minimalizing the amount of people Participating in your sport and if I got To give up good hunting opportunities For the next 10 or 20 years so there's a Future in it of like where I can only Hunt every three years something like That fine but we have to have a future And that begins with us deciding that Our future is more important than our Own personal gain and the people that Are posting on that are worried about Their own personal gain they're not

Thinking about their future this just a Point I want to make you're saying um I Here's what I don't like and back to the Ego and we'll we'll discuss the whole Celebrity hunting thing and and because You know what man I would love for Joe To join me on a public land hunt and we Would have to have at least 10 days and We're g to run into other hunters and We're gonna be stoked if we shoot a rag Hole rag horn Bull on day 10 way too far From the trail head and be like why did We kill this small bull this far away But actually we'd be hugging over like You excited until you realized oh God I Got to get this thing out of here that That's not going to happen man it's not Going to happen okay and I'm okay with That because I'd rather have the world's Biggest podcaster be pro hunting than Being up there talking about how stupid And bad and dumb hunting is for that's My personal take I don't think Joe Should have t said what he said and how He said it but at the end of the day he Has done so much more good for hunting Than bad I haven't heard him say uh some Something outside of that where I was Like ooh never yeah yeah so it's a it's A bump in the road big deal and I also Want to you know those guys that are Clowning on Joe Rogan for going uh Hunting those private ranches it's just Like if those same people had the means

That Joe Rogan do it they're going to go They will be going doing the same exact H yeah yeah I've I've heard cam say that Too it's like you know and he and he Earned his way to that totally by things That most people would never do that are Things that anyone has the opportunity To try to do But if you had access to it and you had The means to it and it was within your Financial budget you're doing it there's A very few people that would actually Say no to it when presented the Opportunity they're going to talk a big Game about it right they really are Because they they want to act like it's Not fair but if they were in those shoes They would make the same choice I spend More money on more money on Hunting than Joe Rogan relatively speaking proportionally Yeah like whoa you just you just know You don't yeah I say but proportionately To what I bring in I know I know what You do yes absolutely you do way more 100% yeah like it's like it's the Equivalent of Joe buying and over the Counter tag right in a state he's a Resident in yeah dollars wise oh to in Relation to what he makes exactly like It's not even funny so I will say this And I'm going to defend cam a little bit And I I get people mad at me for Defending cam but like the dude could

Kill elk on public land and done it he's Done it for de do e caps dude people Want to Trash Talk freaking hunt so much But I'm here to tell you in real life Josh I'm a very fit determined mfer Right like in real life y a lot of My Success is just between the ears because I'm a just an all or none guy far beyond Driven right you got you got a will Higher than most okay I can't keep up With Cameron Haynes who's 14 years older Than me MH on a hike without a pack it's Impressive I could not keep up with him Walking uphill yeah he's a goat there is Most people that cannot keep up with me So they could definitely not keep up With Cam who's 14 years older than me Yes who runs in the rain in the dark and Does crazy stuff and does need to be Doing that to hunt Ranch Bulls these guys are saying no I'm Saying yeah he does because that's what Gives him his mental Edge he's Constantly uncomfortable constantly Doing stuff that others aren't and it's Got him where he is but my point of all That is don't think for a second he Couldn't step back on public land and Have success I think people take a Credit away from that guy also I will Say and I'm not gargling his balls right Now no I've got I've got something to Add on that but let him go let him go um I have been around plenty of people that

Do hunt private land that you know write A high quality check that don't get a Elk at the end of their hunt cuz you Were an out guide correct okay and they Had a guide too's that and they even had A guide they had a guide not me and they Had someone making their meals at the Lodge and the nice warm bed and the nice Side by side ride out there that is Nice oh no one saying it's not I went on That deer hunt it was very much like That it wasn't like I didn't put in my Effort I did but it was nice yeah um but The point is you still got to be a Killer and that's what cam is 100% and Part of the reality of that is Cam is Also not different than Joe he can't go Hunt in a normal place without being Bombarded by people you can't take the Keep hammeron truck to the old trood in North and it's it's the same stuff that You know you've experienced at times That like Dan Evans experienced at times People I've known over the years who've Become let's say a celebrity somewhat in The Hunting Community you can't just go Hunting anymore y you can't everybody is Paying attention to where you're going And it wrecks any spot that you try to Develop so at a certain point somebody Like that just can't go hunt public land Because they'll be in one spot for a day And three days later there's 20 people Around I have hunted with a guy with a

Large following on public land and we Literally had guys coming up to our Trailer at midnight just to say hi as We're like on onx trying to game plan For the next time thankfully that guy Was nice and he gave us some good stuff And we got went and shot a bull because Of it but still like he was a guy had Nothing to do with hunting like he was a Fitness guy and he we had people showing Up at our camp trying to say hi and try To hang out for real yeah yeah I had to Sell my truck because every I had it had It wrapped like an idiot and yeah the Problem is people think oh they saw my Truck somewhere that that's got to be a Good spot and the it's probably a shitty Spot that I'm finding out right now that It's terrible but anyways I I think the Point has been made that like some of These guys probably just it's not going To work for them to hunt public land but The egos as far as well this that the Other that's what I really wanted to Talk about today not the opposing crowd I wanted to find common ground and so Here's some common ground like you shoot A TRD you shoot a stick I shoot high Power rifles long range MH I hate that You wound animals with your primitive Equipment y and you hate that he's got Training wheels and he hates that I Shoot at an elk a th000 yards away and I Don't know if I hit it or not like we

All have these things that we hate about Each other but we always forget that I Love that you buying an elk tag I love That you're buying a hunting license I Love that we probably vote similar you Know what I mean and we all have the Same discipline to be able to do it the Best we possibly can regardless of the Tool we choose to use exactly the Common Ground fellas help me brainstorm this Out so I want to do this as a group not Just me ranting but like what can we do To get United I'm not saying that we're All going to hold hands and lock step And jump around in a rainbow and Sunshine I know that there's some real A-holes and there's always going to be Some people that you just don't see eye To eye with that's cool I understand it Been alive long enough to understand That but as the hunting community and as This digital platform and this is going Into your Ears what can we talk about to get People thinking about more unity and Ways to police our own so that there's Less Douchery Sure that's a that's a very difficult Thing yeah honestly it just is um Because you have to in order to be Successful with that you have to change The way people think that's very hard Because if you're if you're the kind of

Person that's posting the things that We're talking about that's complaining About the things that we're talking About that are saying well you're Getting more people into hunting and That's bad you're an internally driven Human being you're thinking about Yourself and you're only thinking about Yourself and the only way to get Beyond This is to stop thinking about yourself And start thinking about other people Realizing in the long run that that's The only way to benefit and that's not Like that's that's something people go To therapy for a decade to try to Fix okay so your your innate issue Is I don't think it is solvable as much As I want it to be because I care about Everybody that hunts I don't care what Kind of equipment you use I do not and I Will try to help you with every type Because I know almost every type because I love all of it I have longdistance Rifle stuff I have muzzle loaders I have Shotguns I have bow and arrows I have Traditional bows I have a crossbow like I have all of it and I de not hunting See you know there's your problem see What I'm saying same do I love crossbows No do I want the same seasons for them No but I do want them to have their Place I'd rather have someone pick up a Crossbow than pick up a p pamphlet 100% Like you have you have to have an open

Enough mind to realize that their their Goal might be the same as yours even if Their path is different yeah well I'm Going to put you in the hot seat man we Got a mutual friend I said friend I like This guy he's made some mistakes in the Past his name is Matthew allwine yeah Okay you've known him just as long as I've known Matt since Matt was B coming Into my store and buying archery stuff When he was 10 when red from tra would Bring him down cuz his parents weren't Into it or whatnot before she opened a Store up there to get archery stuff cuz He was really interested in archery one Of the one of the Most Talented people I've ever met on the Ability to shoot a weapon period like he Was really into archery and now he's Really into longdistance rifle stuff and PRS and he's like nationally competing And he was nationally competing with Archery 10 years ago anyway go ahead Yeah I will agree with you there he Literally is one of the most gifted God-given talents of shooting things Yeah to the point where I don't like him For it god-given god-given anyways Matthew made a post I didn't see it I Heard about it where the he showed how Cool it was to pack an elk out by you Take the big Bull's Head off and then You can roll it down the hill or drag it

Down the hill so the antlers aren't boun Yeah I didn't even think about that yeah And he was hunting some steep probably Idaho country yeah and it wasn't very Tasteful and then this other entity that I'm talking about got a hold of that and They're like dude see this is why Hunting and social media just don't go Hand inand like all these people are Going to see that they're going to think Badly and Matt's like y'all are soft and A bunch of snowflakes he's Unapologetic Then they're like oh really well check Out this article on you Matt from the Spoke Spokesman Review five years ago When the title was like TV hosts Convicted y tag uh hunting license Revoked for four years yeah so they dug Up his the dirt on whatever okay and I've had Matt on my podcast and I wanted To talk about that in the his past and He did not want to and so I respectfully Didn't bring it up okay but he's man Enough to know he made a mistake and if You are mistake free the Bible says be The first one to pick up a stone if you Are completely if you're hand you know I Personally cannot be picking up anything Because I've done a lot of dumb stuff in My life a lot of mistakes but um I think Matt learned his lesson but I'm sure so I I kind of just don't want to fluff Over yeah he made a mistake or whatever But what do you think like should Matt

Have like how would we police our own Like he's our friend would I if I see That should I text him and say bro I Think it's cool but it's not cool to Show that on public like you should take That down or you should make your Account private like um just this is a Very I'm telling you man this it's a Tough one it's a very slippery slope Because the reality of it is I'm a Very very strong Free Speech person okay B basically you're saying you shouldn't Show that I'm not saying that I'm just Asking well no but but that's the that's The concern right yep it's like that Shouldn't be out in the world to see Because it's going to paint things in a Bad light but I think it all comes down To just time and place you know having The Right audience knowing it's kind of Like the birds and the bees with your Kids right there's a time and a place to Have that conversation there's a prudent Way to do it and there's an unpr way to Do it so I think just that self- Policing mindset of having the Opportunity to you know have the ability To use your Free Speech but use it as a Tool and an asset and when that time in Place comes us you canot have your cake And eat it too I'm going to play Devil's Advocate fellas you're talking about how We as Hunters need to grow and sustain Our numbers right but you said that

Automatically 30% of the eyeballs off The top are going to be anti-hunting no Matter what we do in this country so you Want free speech and I I do too but then You also don't want our numbers to go Down so how do you weigh like should I Post this like I want free speech and I Think it's cool but I know that this Could get in the hands of the wrong People and they could make it look even Worse so and I don't have the answers Guys I'm just saying like only the only Real option is to try to police it Yourself and say hey bro look that's Probably not smart you ought to take That down from people that you respect Okay right it's like it looks ugly and I Like I I like share it privately don't Put it in a public form like if Matt had Text that to me I would have been like Dude I got to try that because I got I Got to try that but don't post that on Instagram yeah exactly I appreciate your Free Speech but at the same but at the Same time like another reality to that Is like you can watch somebody get Murdered on Instagram oh really oh God Yeah Joe well if you listen to Joe talk He's like every his whole feed is people Getting killed like it's cuz he he Shares it with sigura like every day They try to find the worst thing they Can find find and send it to each other That's terrible but but and then like

Like what his feed's full of so if you Can watch somebody get murdered on Instagram what are we upset about an Elk's headless elk rolling down a hill On Instagram for yeah like and and why And why are we fired up about that and Not the Murder that's a Human Being Human Being Yeah and why why all of a sudden is a is An elk's life more valuable than a human Being which don't get me wrong I love Elk hunting I would life would be a lot More empty without it 100% right but at What point are we not valuing human life And why and why is the argument this It's like there's there's so many Greater things to be concerned about That oh yeah we that's we got to stop Being little like so at each other like It's stupid yeah we can't be like Congress we someone like yourself or Myself I didn't see it or I would have Messaged him say hey dude like cool idea Don't post it publicly I I scrolled by It and I saw a quick clip of it I didn't Like it I don't think I did I might have But I don't think I did and I never Thought another thing of it yeah it's Kind of Matt being Matt like Matt's he Doesn't care he I guarantee he does not Care what you think which I can respect Because I typically don't care what People think true but I guess I really Want to get down to how can we find

Commonality Common Ground like and make Um where everybody makes some Concessions like we all kind of maybe we Take it a little bit easy on the ighting And in return we kind of make it cool to Do conservation to to seek out like Sportsman's Alliance or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and it's cooler to show Like maybe it's cool to show a big bull But it's also just as cool to show you With gloves on helping a Rancher fix Fence sure you know what I mean that Gives access to Hunters um I think There's a way where we can use digital Media and social like social media ain't Going away bro so if you think you're Going to get rid of the grip and grins In the social media you're not right but How can we all work together for some Commonality we will certainly all not Agree on everything right and I I Understand that and that's just the way This world is right but I was just Wondering if you guys wanted to talk it Through if you had some Life Changing Life altering thoughts on how could we Create less division amongst The Hunting Community because it's getting pretty Bad the biggest thing that I think of You know throughout this conversation is On I don't even know what to call him You know Instagram influencer a guy like You with a Channel with a voice there Needs to be you more Unity with the

Leaders and the influencers in the space You know the second I got into this Industry I heard oh well we don't like This guy but we like this guy you know Every single person is trying to bring Hunting in a good light and I know that There are some good good ones and There's some bad ones however there Needs to be in my opinion more of like a Hey I'm going to help you succeed just As much as I want you to help me succeed You know we'll do collabs we'll do Things all in the voice of better Hunting better conservation more public Land access this that and the other Thing this is an alpha male industry you Know this is a ego driven industry and I Think Unfortunately um it just takes a lot of I mean there's money involved too that You know never that makes things tricky So there's always that weird line Between you know cuz a lot of posts on Instagram are because of Brands and Because of money and because of things Like that so taking away all of that we Find different channels we find Different voices we should come together And promote hunting together and your And every single people every all the People will be able to grow from it Because of that yeah yeah yeah the ego Keeps getting brought up I think is one Of the things that's stumbling us all

Sure yeah is we all have an ego and it Gets fed well we all we all want to be Successful we all want success we all Want success and that's what stands in The way a lot because you you'll push And you'll push hard you don't get to um To a position of growth and success Without working hard sure you just don't And you're not you're not working hard If you're not Competitive and it's it is a competitive Thing and it's hard to set that aside And realize that there's more important Things to do but how you get everybody On board with that I don't know I mean All we can really do is act by example In a more positive way you know that That's the only opportunity we have yeah I think the influencer word I hate I Despise it I do hate it but if you want To call me that that's fine uh I'll give You some examples of Like Jee you this your first week so I'm Sure I've pound sounded this into your Head but I think you already knew that Coming into this was like authenticity Is everything to me definitely to where Like you yes companies will ask me to Post certain things at certain cadences And I risk the I risk getting fired Because I just not I do not want to run Some of my platforms like infomercials y You know what I mean like today the only Thing I've posted is Josh making the

Most bombass Buffalo bacon burgers with An egg and that's all they're going to Be for sale on my website next Week he's joking no no that's just pay Pay but like for real like the Authenticity is King and I I just don't Want to fake it I try to line up with Brands that line up with what I'm Already doing and I've always kind of Come back to you've heard me say it a Lot Josh I'm selling hard work I don't Care at the end of the day if you don't Shoot a Matthews I just want you to put The work in I I say these things cuz I Genuinely mean them um but it is hard as An insta fluenc or a person with Influence who companies lean on you to Help share their message to do it proper And I'm not saying I've figured it out But you certainly need to understand Your principles and your values and what You're willing to do and what you're not Willing to do you're not going to catch Me um you know selling out for the Dollar because hunting's more important Than anything besides Faith and family Is like I put hunting over finances I Put hunting hunting is everything to me It's what I it's like the only thing That like truly just kind of lines me up In this world and has a direction for me To Chase and pursue and it's like it's Just a be thing of beauty it has a faith Component in the mountains you know for

Sure like I love to be there when you Just shot that bulll in Washington state MH do it yourself EAS Eastern Washington Difficult hunt and you worked so hard to Finally bring it all together and when You walked up to that elk I don't think The first thing you were thinking is how Can I get the best photo so I can get The best likes I think you were in tears Thinking man I wish my dad was here Right now it the closest I felt to my Dad since he died you know yeah there's A lot of pure people out there that are Really truly love hunting and if elk Shape goes away Jeff and you're out of a Job I'm sorry but I'm not done hunting Like I'm hunting whether or not I have a Videographer photographer and need to Get Content uh and I hope and I my wish is That everybody who has influence did Have pure intentions but I can't Guarantee that they do right you know I Think people don't give themselves Enough credit in my position like Audiences can sniff out that fake [ __ ] Yeah totally in a heartbeat if you Really didn't know much about Archery seriously if you really were Just well it depends it depends on where You go to find out there's probably a Lot of places that they I don't archery Any of your naysayers or critics I Challenge them to come down here in real

Life and convince me that they know more Than you I've yeah I've been around in The Archer game I I was telling him once We set up his bow today and you were Doing whatever I said dude you just had In my opinion one of the top if not the Top dudes build your bow today you're Going to be this thing's going to be Like his last group was like this and he Was like he's like asked me he he was a Far shot he's like did you put my arrows In the 11 ring I'm like no like that's That's what you just finished the day at And so my point of all that not to pump You up was just like dude people can Sniff out the fake stuff sure the stuff That's not authentic so if you are Wanting to be a micro influencer or You're a bigger influencer than all of Us Combined stay true to yourself keep it Real authenticity is keing you don't Have to push pills powders potions Products gimmicks youg none of that [ __ ] Yeah fidget Spinners o my kid would buy Those my kid would buy those I don't Know I'm going off on a tangent but I Guess I just really would like to see More on authenticity in our space where People are just keeping it real if you Don't chase Your Passion you're probably Going to be chasing money and money is Not your passion and when you chase Money it doesn't chase you when you

Chase Your Passion there's a good chance If you do it right the money will come I Think the um another another option we Have here when you have people that feel A particular way especially a group a Particular way against what you're doing Invite them on a podcast face to face Not not yeah not over the phone because That's hard to to get but like I want to Understand where you're coming from yep So please explain it to me in long form Long form so everyone can see it and I Guarantee there'd be more in common I Yeah it's it's guaranteed 95% of what You think is going to be alike and 5% Isn't then you're going to realize that The majority of what you think is is Aligned and maybe you shouldn't be at Each other quite as much you know but That that's that's probably the only Thing we can do from the the standpoints And and portals that we have if somebody Really feels that way and thinks that What we're doing is wrong come down and Talk to me about it publicly yeah in Something that everyone can watch and Let the public decide what's right and What's wrong but I think you're going to Find that we're probably not very far Apart I think it's probably best and we Got more in common then we do not that's Probably where I would want to end this Pod I Be i' Be Honest by saying I didn't Wake up today going man I want to do a

Podcast with Jeff and Josh about this Stuff it does make me uncomfortable if You were like hey let's wake up today And talk about bows or elk hunting or Nutrition macros or the best training Cycle for this time of year for Fitness I'd be like yeah yeah this stuff is not Fun for me to talk about I'll be honest It's not my jam well but the reality of It is the hard conversations that you Have to have easily the most important Because I want hunting to be around for My kids as kid I want I want our future To have that one more thing I was going To bring up is like those stories of Like you feeling connected with your Father you know after he passed away Like those are the stories that we need To be talking about more than anything I Genuinely started hunting because I felt Connected as like connected to my Grandfather because I had a bow in my Hand and I knew he was an archery Hunter Before I had shot anything in my entire Life just the fact that I had a tag in My pocket with a bow in my hand on Public land like I felt more of myself Because of who I was and because of you Know my family's traditions and things Like that like in the hunting industry Those are the beautiful stories that are Unfortunately not as focused on that Need to be cuz everyone has a personal Connection with that kind of stuff

That's a picture of my dad with his First deer ever look at those luscious Locks I think he's 13 years old God look At that who he he's a giant for a 13y Old yeah that's a big 13y old that Dude's 13 he was big he had a beard by The time he was a freshman in high School and I still can't grow a beard Are you sure the mailman didn't sneak One in on your Mom but how cool is that my dad's got a Deer on a hood this was considered a Senor yeah he's got a 3030 lever action No sights and honestly like what a three Or 4×4 Buck on the hood of an old Jeep Wearing his bright onesie Hunter orange Jacket there you go and he's 13 years Old and I bet he's proud in Hell himself Right there as he should be his dad died When he he was 6 years old thank God he Had uncle right who took him hunting and Then this dude took me hunting and I had My best memories when I was with with my Dad that's why you are here today that's Why I'm here doing what I do today thank You Dad for the passion for hunting and Opening that Gateway there's way more to It than just me and my dad but you Mentioned that y I've had you cry in Front of me at my house talk about your Dad and what he got you into for hunting And I've seen you talk about all these Trophies and you're like there's some Big deer in here but it's like the ones

That were with Dad like that mu over There there's a little more of a twinkle In your you tell me that story you know What I mean mhm of course we got to get Over this [ __ ] yeah man we're we're Killing Ourselves I'm not saying the the Opposing crowd is wrong I'm just saying Like no but let's talk let's talk about It let's work more together than just Creating division right which is what They want who is they these are the People that do not want hunting to be Around and I'm not one of them you know Also like that non-hunter has that like Maybe a ring or a piece of jewelry from Their grandfather or grandmother right We have elk mounts we have you know a 3030 handed down yeah exactly and like Those things mean more than any type of Money could bring us dude like and those Are that is the beauty of hunting in a Nutshell like that's what we all no Matter what you shoot where you hunt we Can get behind that did your dads have Like a go-to hunting knife that you were Little and you saw them cut up every Animal with that Custom Knife like like My dad had this one knife dude I don't Even think it's a brand and it was like Probably something he picked up at a Garage S I didn't know that I just know That it was always on his hip when we Were hunting for grous for deer for elk

And anything he killed he would quarter It up we lived off Wild game when I was Young we were very we were dirt floor Poor my dad was a pastor at a church of Like 20 people okay we were poor my mom Didn't work we ate deer me I'm not sure If all the deer came from Seasons you Know what I mean like we lived off Deer Uh and he had this knife that he would Just use on everything and then I just Remember the day that like that knife Ended up in my possession was like a Really big deal you know what I mean I Was like and I don't even know where That knife is now unfortunately but like Do you guys have anything like that like You mentioned rifle or something is There something of your dad's that like As a kid you were just like that is the Coolest thing and then it eventually Became yours uh my dad's 44 your dad's 44 mhm I have it just sits in my safe One one one year I'm going to I'm going To hunt with it and kill something with It I've never shot something with a Pistols from a hunting standpoint but oh I haven't either um but yeah that I have I have my dad's 44 yeah I will say I'm a Little jealous about this but it's not My mind my brother got it that dog but Your older brother no my younger brother So my my my grandfather has a 30 out 6 And he has notches on every animal that That he has harvested with it and then

He gave it to my father he has his Notches and then my brother has shot a Roosevelt elk if you know a few when he Was a young kid and my grandpa put his First notch in there and then handed it Over to him you know and it's just like We we have it in our my dad's Loft we Always talk about it Grandpa he passed Away and it's just like those are the Things that mean the world to us you Know and it's just like yeah it's that Knife or it's that you know rifle it's 30 6 just like these are the things that We can you know we can talk about for Hours that mean the world to us and Everyone has that their own story for That and it's beautiful and it needs to Be shared for sure cool well you guys Like podcast this was a podcast and we Talked about hard things which I'm okay With and appreciate you guys coming Along thanks for letting us have your Studio time sure Josh Jones Jeffrey dods Dan ston appreciate you guys for Listening Definitely make a comment or share this Or whatever y'all do to keep the Conversation going I'd like to hear your Feedback and how we can work towards Unity United not divided separations in The preparation we'll catch you on the Next one