How To Consistently Hunt The Oldest Buck

Here is how you can consistently kill and hunt the oldest bucks in the neighborhood each and every Fall. Well, hunting the oldest bucks and a whole lot of other stuff!

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Well episode 20 is what we're on already Already took us a year and a half a Little bit when did we start I think you And Dylan did some in was it during the Hunting season of 2022 I think it was Like November and then I think we did You and I did one I think it was like End of December early January something Like that but here we are 20 now we were Talking about having a discussion About shooting buck shooting deer and And how often we should do that in a Certain amount of time yeah and and not Only that but uh when it comes to Shooting big bucks I believe there's a Rule um that you know the majority of The time you should shoot the oldest box In the neighborhood you know that's kind Of what it's about and and I understand People that want I had someone comment This morning I didn't even tell you this But they commented we get lots of Comments of course I try to answer them All but I can't I only answer about 10,000 a year YouTube tells me so I miss Probably another 20 I would say at least But um they made a comment that you know Don't forget it's not all about antlers It's you know about just going out Enjoying hunting and I agree but what I Don't like are participation trophies And what I mean by that is we're going To teach our kids and we're going to Teach people on this channel how to be

The best they can be at something right That's why we're here so I don't want to Teach someone just to shoot Do's cuz That's easy shooting Doe's Young Bucks On public Land a good seasoned Hunter can Accomplish that taking that next level Where you're saying these are the oldest Bucks in the neighborhood I want to Target specifically those every single Year takes a different set of rules and Steps it's not about just going out and Participating in hunting and enjoying The sport it's actually attacking it and Saying I'm going into this with a set of Strategies it's going to help me do my Best and be the best hunter I can be Because you don't have to be the best Hunter to consistently shoot Doe's and Young Bucks no but to consistently shoot The mature bucks on the property you Should be doing that about 80% of the Time over a 10e period and that's that's What I like to say right you know shoot About 80% of the time and how have you Been able to do that cuz I You' find a Different property so Minnesota property Was this season 4 yeah so this was Season 4 um and and every year you've Been here you've you've shot a mature Buck yeah and we try to shoot the older Bucks the oldest bucks and to me it's About it's all relative it doesn't Matter if you're if you're hunting um in

In your oldest Buck is a three-year-old In the neighborhood I can't stand when People say well I got to shoot a mature Buck and mature is four 4.5 that's when Their skeletal size gets to that size Four four and a half where they're Actually truly mature Where a d matures at about 2 and A2 so a Little bit different with a a quote Mature dough versus a mature Buck Imagine that mature buck that has a year And a half more experience and uh and That truly makes them mature but not Everybody has that luxury of having Four-year-old 5-year-old six-year-old Bucks in the neighborhood you know next Year we have we've built up to this year In four years we've built up to where we Saw seven bucks that should be 5 years Old or old in your next year and that's Not counting Counting Isaac and shorty Who which we don't we don't know what Either you know happened to either of Them right when we went after these deer We were specifically going after either This Buck is going to be here or this One is here based on what we're seeing On trail cameras right you know so we we Truly went out and attacked those deer We weren't going to sit somewhere else You know to let's see what's going to Just come moseying on through it was all Strategic well in our 5-year-old Buck There's someone else's 2-year-old Buck

Three-year-old buck it's all relative Meaning that you're still trying to do Your your best to put yourself in the Position I'd rather see people shoot Deer so if literally all they're saying Is they buy a new property I'm thinking Of the up of Michigan where I bought Bought that big property up there and we Saw one Spike for the entire season well I hled a lot of public land around there But bottom line is on the property we Got pictures of one Spike we had one rub One scrape in that first year and I Wouldn't have blame someone for shooting That Spike because if they're actually Working on the habitat and doing a good Job they're going to attract more and More and more and in this article right Here that was is April or March of 2004 But that article right there um I talked About the five eight points we had in 2003 M so even going from one Spike and Next and nothing to 5 eight points that Doesn't even count the spikes and two Points or three points four points that We had well and to piggy back off that That first year that you hunted and that Was all you saw you truly attacked that Attacked all of that property that next Year to make it better right yeah that's Part of what you know that's part of What we do that's part of what you teach People so I'd rather see someone shoot a Year and a half old buck and if that was

The best they had or a two and a half Year old Buck I want to see him shoot Because you can't be a a quote Buck Killer and and be a good Hunter without Actually killing stuff MH um you really Have to it's be season because when the Moment of Truth arrived and you've Arrives and you haven't shot a buck in 5 Years and you go to draw back your Failure rate's going to be really high Sure on that big old buck that you've Been waiting for and I can't stand when People say well I'm waiting for a Four-year-old they've never seen a Three-year-old and I see that all the Time lower your expect expectations kill Something but have it be in that upper Age class of maybe not last year I shot The second target Buck on my list in Wisconsin you got a chance or almost a Chance almost chance very close at the Uh number one target bu and so we plan Out our sits together and it was pretty Cool that we were almost able to take One and two um on that property and and And you know interestingly the neighbor That has 4 to 500 Acres there those were Their number one and two too and we got Really close to taking out both and we Taken out the older bucks in that on That property several times the number One Buck or two buck is has there been a Year you haven't been successful over on That Wisconsin property since we've been

Leasing that same one Oh boy I started leasing it in 2014 and I I'd like to think not like to think But I think I had one year where I Didn't shoot something and which is odd Or maybe it was just a bowok I I don't Remember um I know in those years that's 10 years of hunting I think I've killed At least 15 bucks right around there but The point is is that if you follow the Principles of good deer management You're going to shoot box 80% of the Time over 10 year you shoot your oldest Box and partly that is because most Neighbors are not they're not hunting Carefully I mean we we see that Sometimes around here I don't know what You saw on your on your previous piece Uh people around there didn't hunt care Carefully at all um there was a a a big Name uh company name in town that own Property next you know next to ours and They were not careful Hunters at all um So that was what were what were they not Careful about they were driving through You see the same consistency they were Driving through the the the main heart Of their um all their property with ATVs Which we love right which is great well No we love it on our neighbors property We love that cuz so many people just About ATVs so many people think that Doesn't matter and my first response is How many times have you have you driven

By and watched a mature Buck at 30 40 Yards like Doe's and Young Bucks just Watch you go by and no big deal and they Just go back to their their merry way And it doesn't happen no you know and Their access was poor too which was Beneficial for us yeah you know so that Uh so yeah when you don't have careful Hunters it benefits you um you know even Around here the we see people that have Fully electric machines but when we're Riding our quiet cats out there and They're they're they're relatively quiet And we stop and you know we're walking We're like what in the world is that Noise these side by sides Creek yeah Pretty loud and you're just the Suspension the suspension frame the the Uh cab everything it makes noise and Squeaks and I was in a and I've told This before but I was in a blind this Year it was I it was towards muzzle Loader sometime around in there and of Course you didn't have snow and I hear This thing coming across the fields and Uh it went by about you know 150 200 the Lights on no see when I saw it it was it Was morning and the lights were on and They're coming up through the draw and You're just like oh Boy anyway I'm trying to think of where That one was yeah that but this was uh This was coming across the flat by The Hermit plot oh sure and uh but it made

Uh it made a lot of noise to the point Where I'm wondering what is that would It remind me and it wasn't but it Reminded me of a golf cart with golf Clubs in it you know how they go by in The golf course and that's what it Reminded me of so and and uh it would Have spooked deer within 300 400 yards For sure guaranteed I was watching the Food plot over here and I was just Getting my stuff together but had there Been deer on there them going by at 150 200 yards would have cleared that food Plot absolutely and uh and if you think Otherwise I hope you're my neighbor yeah So but uh but anyways um really that's You know access ATVs um really critical But let's back up a little bit because We want to shoot these older box we're Going to talk about the principles that Especially on private land but I want to Back up and talk about public land Because we got to go on on public land My um you know I I have a hard time Deciding which my favorite is you could We could try to discuss that a little Bit but um I like hunting public land And you and I got to go out to Pennsylvania along with Dylan and Hunt Public land this year going into it that We want a to shoot a an an older buck And and it's kind of hard to do when You're showing up and you don't know What bucks are out there you have no

Trail cameras you don't even know where The sign is at until the lights come on On opening day right and for me it was Pretty unique it was the first time I Had ever hunted public land ever Anywhere and so I got to do it in PA Which was which was great I've always Been fortunate enough to um have a Family that has property that I can hunt Or have my own um and that and being the Jobs I held before I never really had Time to go out and do the whole um Public land thing yeah yeah and it's uh And for me my first properties I could Hunt on rep public land or I had some Permission on small Parcels 10 Acres um from some really nice elderly People at church um and then we wandered Around from there we were kids you know 16 and 14 getting dropped off by dad and Said okay just go hun and figure it out On your own cuz you didn't know how to Hunt we grew up in a fishing family sure Um hunted Pontiac Lake Recreation Area Lower Michigan uh Holly Recreation Area um you know if I was hunting back Then and I wanted to go a lot of times It was on public land because then I Could go anywhere want we hunted a lot On of rabbit hunting but did you see a Lot of people on those public those Parcels that you were hunting we saw a Few but not that many okay and you know What's interesting people talk about

There's a lot of people that park at the Same spots hunting the same spots as Everyone else what I find on public land Um you know of course is critical on Private land but it's it's just as Critical on public land and if you're Going with everyone else and you're You're you're attacking the quote great Spots on public land and you're ignoring These hidden honey holes that might not Look as good on paper but they're better Because no one's hunting them sure and And and maybe this is a Good leeway into the why public land is So much easier to hunt than private Yeah it's so so different oh I'll ask You we went out to Pennsylvania we went Out public land hunting here we've often Talked about that literally we could Hire someone to work 20 hours to see What you think about this so let's say They're going to work about two a th000 Hours throughout the entire year we Could probably employ them to do all the Stuff we have or and keep them busy on Our own property here and if they're a Little short we could send them over to Wisconsin but they might we might fill Their their a th000 hours a year just Right here on the property yeah I'd say A lot of work but it's not a lot of work It's not just that work it's you have to Do it correctly because if we're doing Work incorrectly we're saying well this

Is a cool spot for native grass field And we'll plant some switch grass and uh This is a great place for a water hole Because there's drainage here uh this is A great place for quote Timber Management to make a bedding area Because it has this type of Timber But we ignore how we can get on and off The property without spooking deer and The entire hunting strategy of the parel And that entire Foundation we just destroyed the land no Matter how works there's a lot of work That takes place on private lands Incorrectly it's a waste of time it's a Waste of effort and what I think one of The strategies is just throw darts at a Map 100 darts at a dart board see what Sticks and uh and over time remove the Ones that don't that don't score well Mhm yeah 20 25 years down the road is It's it takes decades this isn't Something you can do overnight just I'll Figure it out no you can't you need that Experience to go into it of actually Hunting and shooting and so when we talk About public land being easier we know It goes into here we know that one Mistake can X out let's say we have Three areas of our property we'll call It the the Northeast Middle and Southwest okay if we mess up once in Each of those areas we're done yeah and If I'm hunting over here and screw up

And you're hunting over there and screw Up we're in big trouble yeah we got one Spot to both screw up together right and But that's that's usually people's first Three weekends of hunting yeah they just Screw it all up in the first weekend and Then they're not seeing any deer and Then they're wondering especially the Mature Buck goes back maybe you'll see The do and fawns and Young Buck but to Actually build a herd so you know what Goes into our private land yeah a lot so What was hard what was hard about Uh hunting Pennsylvania public land um Cuz there were some hardships yeah there Was I mean the walk in and out I don't Want to say was hard but it was Difficult it was difficult in some areas But uh I would say that was probably the Hardest part the other part was maybe How far did you how far did you say we Walked we walked 12 a little over 12 Miles in 2 days with a 900t of elevation Change each day how much habitat work Did we do none well I take that back I Think I BR I broke a limb Oh no you're Not supposed to break a limb in federal Land you're going to get in big trouble I'm kidding oh wait what I was a dead Branch anyway so it didn't count but um No the um no habitat work no money spent We yeah we didn't know hours and hours And days and days and weeks and weeks of Work right we you just show up and hot

Well we looked at the topo maps you had Been there before uh you had spent time Scouting out there before uh which which Was helpful but before you had you had Only been out there a day before yeah That was my scouting was a day before There were some Summers that I was able To get out and Scout like a couple hours Here you know once or twice and and the Reason you were there wasn't to Primarily go and Scout the land yeah Family vacation so so that was a little Different it was yeah and so that was Hard you know all the walking we did Yeah so by the time we got to where we Were going or we knew where at least I Was going to sit it was kind of like Looking around And figuring out what your greatest you Know point of watching was going to be Where they're coming where where we Believe that they're going to be coming Out of these draws where they're bedding Where they're eating you know and where They're going to be the corridor in Which they're going to be passing Through well you know and that the Interesting part about that is we go do That so let's say we had a monster bck Come up to us while we're all we're Talking and looking around and Whispering and he sees us and runs away And he runs to the South South which was Back towards the trail system where we

Came from so let's say he runs to the South for one we probably saw him Run 3 400 yard and he didn't stop for another Half mile after that and he was going South so what would we have done the Next day if there was this giant that Ran to the South that we spooked go hunt Over there so we hunt basically 2,000 Acres over and Hunt that location hoping For a big buck that's one of the big Differences too yeah we're here on the Private land we screw up those two spots I screw up this one you screw up the one You know the South you know the South Property of or the south portion of our Prop we ain't going nowhere no no and That's that's one of the big differences And I would argue that on public land There's a lot of public land locations That are actually a that that have a Better deer herd as far as Buck balance With uh Indo uh populations maintain and Balance of the habitat and then also Decent age structure and I'll point out Where I used to hunt in Ohio you know Was 65,000 Acres of public land and I Think I saw two other hunters in seven Years but is that normal dozens of times Out is that normal in every single place You go is it normal it is cuz that's how I hunt so I'm not going to go in an area That there's a road a half mile apart And there's great parking areas no water No Hills no beaver dams to cross into

Cuz even where I hunt in the up I've Never seen anybody else out there never So so Jake we just went there Jake and I Was it two years ago for opening day I Think so two seasons ago that was brutal And we saw Zero other hunters and that Was normal in that spot I've shot 148 in Eight point there out on public land Federal land and that was the third Fourth day of the Season middle of the Day well and I think that two ties us Back into that first point of that Comment that that guy made where it's Not um all about antlers but look at What you're doing on private lands it's Only about antlers if you if you want to Hunt the older buck and you want to be a Better Hunter sure but what I'm saying Not everyone wants to be a good Hunter But look at what you're doing on on Private land you're going to a place That you don't think anybody else is Going to go that anyone else is going to Take the time to go and you're going to Go there to avoid everybody else yes I'd Rather have my own playground right to Try to hunt a mature animal for that Place wherever you're hunting there Ain't no participation trophies no hous No never will if uh Jackson um and I Know the answer to this if he sucks at T-ball and baseball he's going to do Something else yeah there's no sense Bringing him to baseball and doing all

These things Motocross you would win in Motocross so you kept going you had Dreams of being a Super Cross Rider I Mean you wanted to be a pro right just Keep riding till you get to the top yeah Yeah where you kept winning but if you Were last all the time when you're 9 10 11 12 13 yeah you just sucked at it That's participation trophy stuff you Don't want to do you know then you just Go out maybe you have a nice track on Your own property and you go out and Just ride because you enjoy riding maybe There's look at all the thousands of Miles in the Upper Midwest you can go to Uh well all over the country and ride Dirt bike and just go have a good time There's nothing wrong with that at all But we're talking about people that Actually want to do their best in Hunting and which is a big difference And I'm public land it to me it's the Same structure of tips and tactics and Strategies on public land are there as There are on private land and let me I'm I'll ask you I'll put you on the spot if We're hunting public land what were some Of the keys to Our Success that you Think when we went out there and I shot Shot my buck the second day ask us we Knew where to go in and go out um that Was going to be the where and that in Access meaning not only we're not going To Spook deer where we come in from the

Side but how we can get in easy yeah Exactly 900t change elevation yeah so we Had to go up this rather Steep Hill um And then when we got to the top it was Really it it was almost like a saddle up There so we could you could definitely See that there was a drop in elevation On both sides but we could walk through There and not spook anything on either Side so if there was something betting There kind of hidden ourselves and where Your buck came from was exactly the Place where we were walk it was a place Where we met and separated yeah bye in The morning yeah so that so so that was Important Um you made a good shot you made three Good Shots I kept I just keep shooting if I Got ammo I'm shooting so I think I shot Two and reloaded yeah you did I did and You didn't shoot the fourth one cuz Dylan was like he's going down he is Going down which I've shot when Dylan Said that before muzzle order why did That does not surprise he's going down And here I am sitting five 600 y from You and you are shooting in my direction Somewh well big hill in between very big Hill in between there was no danger but When your gun went off the first time it Was very peaceful and quiet over there I Guarantee you I jumped for a fact jumped And then when the next three two shots

Went off I was like well I hope that Thing's dead and if it's not I hope it's Running in my direction so somebody with A good shot can actually kill it yeah Well that was you know one of the things When I go out in the public land uh the First thing I'm looking for is big food And food sources now we I hunted in Ohio That would be fresh clear Cuts not more Than three to four years old because Once they get too old for one the deer Can't move through them they're full of Briers multifloor rows uh but two the Brow starts to get Out Of Reach and so In those first two to three years it's Almost like a corn field the deer out in Those uh public land areas clearcuts now We were hun in Pennsylvania there's no Cutting uh that wild it's called a Wilderness Area along the reservoir so It's a national Forest uh designated Wilderness are so they don't cut they Can't cut uh that Timber is you know Over 100 years old massive so what You're looking for there is the sunny Side where you have a lot more brows Because the sunlight gets through and Gets more brows uh more uh growth on the Forest floor also then there's Mass crop And up top there's Mass crop of Oak Beach and Cherry which will drop down And I've seen where they're hitting the The beach really good depending on the Year not not as often as the acorns

Acorns are pretty good this year we were Slipping on them going uphill yeah we Sure were um but uh when we get down the Bottoms in that area there's a lot of Hemlock and the deer are not feeding in The hemlock unless they get really Massive snowstorms they get pushed into There the hemlock branches get pushed Off broke off some of the smaller trees Will get broke and I've seen that happen Blowdowns and then they'll eat that Hemlock and so then they have the best Of both worlds they have that that Thermal cover snow hindrance cover Because it's filtering down through the Boughs it's not as deep under the Hemlocks so they have good they can move Around avoid predators and then they Have some food so they have cover food Thermal cover food and um and then they Have easy easy movement so I'm trying to Identify that on public land and then Find a good way in and out so that we Could take advantage of that and Especially it was crazy did you hear the Boats no I couldn't hear them where I Was com where I was sitting so where Dylan and I were at we're open more Towards a reservoir you were around the Corner you know around that hill and um We could hear boats coming in and couple Miles three miles away and then we knew People cuz we could hear them on the Road could you hear that I could hear

That yeah and they' they'd slow down and You hear them stop Y and but they were Mile and a half two miles away straight As cowli long ways away so we got in Between all those people and that's Another thing too we weren't on the main Trails we used a main access parking Area but from there we we do our own Thing and even then we never saw anybody Walking in and out I think that first Day we were there we saw some Flashlights MH as we were getting ready To go and that was it yeah that that was Absolutely it and uh and again we talked About this I think in the last podcast It's still is crazy to me that that guy That buck I shot the second day um that Uh we got a email with a video of my Buck making a scrape in September October somewhere the ads of that are Very poor very but poor that was pretty Cool um so we have those founding Principles that we're we're looking for Identify the major food sources which For us for that was at uh hard Mass up On top in the flats away from the Hemlocks because it was good weather was Cold out but uh it wasn't snowy any Anyway we had good access in away from Other Hunters so we could get ourselves into a Position where we're in the middle of Other Hunters we're taking advantage of Food movements bedding benches off to

The side big movement areas where people Could push dear to us And when you flip over to private Land I tell people you know people say Well I'm I'm in Texas Alabama and these Concepts or not Concepts but these tips Don't help me the concepts are all the Same my uh white tail by design my first Uh book the red book intro conclusion I Talk about a big buck hunt and talk About the buck coming and in the Conclusion you I talk about all these Factors and Concepts that I wanted to Coin talk about in the book um and this Is 2012 that I thought were my Concepts I wanted to Define them I wanted to Write about them and put him in that Book and I did and uh what I found was That you know people would look at that And say well it's it's about private Lands and that's what I wrote about that In the intro and the conclusion that was A story of that big public land B in 201 and hunting that buck on public land And the concepts are still the same it Doesn't matter if it's public or private Land private land there's a lot more Work to get those Concepts um you have a lot less room for Error because you have 40 acres or 200 Acres or 500 Acres you don't have tens Of thousands of acre where you can just Go move over There so it's it's a it's a lot it's

Just different it's just different uh More boot time on public land sometimes But even then you can scout from the air A lot and in the case of gun hunting You're putting yourself in Ambush spots That go back and forth and so you public Land my favorite I I really like Ohio That was uh private land or that was Public land uh Big Forest but it was With bow mostly I hunted uh muz or to But I really like to get into position Where you had close shots and so it was A little bit different because I'm Looking for small little tiny Saddles uh benches that connect on Little finger systems away from people Same Concepts identifying food you know I'm getting in between giant um clear Cuts for example mhm and getting into Those locations and letting those uh Deer move between those almost like a Giant barbell and I'm hunting the funnel Points away from people and good access In Between you flip over to private land Same thing when we came here the first Thing we do is identify where major food Sources can go that's determined by our Access meaning we can't access through Them and um and once we have those Access points away from food then you Know you can develop the property from There you can build bedding areas uh Dough bedding areas next to the food

Buck beding areas if you develop that Depth of cover back into that and that That establishes your whole framework of Hunting where you're hunting in the Morning back on the backside of the Movement meaning if a buck is betting 300 yards away from Food I'm I'm hunting that spot in the Morning and then I'm flipping around and I'm hunting on the way of the food so I Don't spook out the food in the Afternoon and then I'm adding water Holes in between in those hunting Locations uh maybe in the some for Morning some for afternoon But uh it's the same framework you're Still trying to get yourself in position The different thing is in a private land Neighborhood it's almost like the your Other neighbors and we have some good Hunters around our our neighborhood here But um you're trying to put yourself in Position almost like you're hunting Public land and waiting for those people To push deer to you and I think of the You talk about Concepts every time you Walk into P the public land you need to Hunt it like it's a like it's private Wait you still identify those food Sources right you still have to use Those same Concepts however food plots Are a little bit different obviously you You said it you never want to Spook deer Off those food plots it's critical so if

You do and you know we take great pains To do that I we do I I mean great pains To do That you know there's people out there That spoke their deer off their food Plots or they're putting tree stands in They have a food plant here let's look At [ __ ] Valley look at our food plants We could never ever put a Bose Understand we never have B hunted those In 10 years we can't no but you know There's people out there that do and They would right and the question you Should ask yourself is how are you can You get on and off that food plot Without spooking deer and if the answer Is uh I don't think so or if the answer Is no don't put a stand there that's an Example we've shot a lot of nice deer in [ __ ] Valley and um we've hunted with a Gun we've hunted the food plots muzzle Primarily um but without those food Plots it would it would ruin our public Land or our uh without those food plots That ruin our bow hunting up top our all Our red hunting or morning hunting Waiting for the deer to come back to us Um they wouldn't be there because they Want to focus on that food source and That's where again with private land you Can never develop a good private land Person with ignoring food um and if it's A moderately sized parcel uh 80 acres or Larger 40 acres or larger 30 Acres you

Have to have some kind of food source Cover doesn't mean much even if you're Surrounded by egg because what happens When that egg is plowed under what Happens when it's corn on one side beans On the other and it flips the following Year then all of a sudden half your Property is no good because they're Hitting that other food source and it's Only good in the in the early part of The Season or it's good in the late part Of the season because they still have Staining corn one year and then they Don't for the other four years and That's and that two to to piggy back off That that two is part of the reason why In a majority of our food plots when We're planting that Braska and that fall And that fall those fall greens it's Half and half for the reason and and When I say half and half we're cutting It down the middle right so it's not Like on this big chunk over here is the Braska and then this big or I'm sorry on This food plot on this food plot we're Not just um planting Braska we're Planting both it's the same combo all The way across consistently across the Property right cuz we don't want them to Be over here and just like this and then Ignore all of this well we have those Three sections we talk about Northeast Middle and Sou Southwest if we had all The corn in the Northeast when the deer

Want corn they're all in the Northeast Then all the the middle and Southwest Sucks there's no reason for consistent Movement because you don't have food and Then if you go in and you you if you Plant your food correctly and then you Go there and spook it now you just Invited every deer in the neighborhood To your food to your property and then You just spook them off now you educated More deer in the neighborhood because of The food so the food is very very Powerful it can kill you it can hurt you And so when you're looking and you want To shoot that consistent mature Buck Every single year the oldest in the Neighborhood you have to be the property That's not spooking the deer off your Food source right there all your food Sources and right there that'll set you In probably about a 10% mode or less in Your neighborhood because the majority Of people are spooking deer off their Food plots and so be that 5% or we Should call it the 5% Club it could be The 3% Club because most people because When you add in well yeah I don't spook Them off the food plop but I drive Through the bedding area Um I blow my scent into the bedding area I blow my scent into the food plot I Don't hunt the food plot but I I have a 10-ft wall of screening miscanthus grass Switch grass Conifer and I and I walk

Right along that well 10 ft 20 feet 50 Feet usually if it's a regular access Going back and forth the deer know You're walking by they hear you they Hear your boot Creek they hear a noise They don't like it they don't like it Especially when it's not consistent all Year long it's one thing if they hear a Distant house they always hear that Noise but when that noise transfers to The woods next door different story when The farmer's tractor they're used to That out in the fields but that tractor Drives into the woods to drop a hunter Off that tractor is not there not Normally there so on that private land The same way you hunt that public land You have to keep your food sources Secure get in and out without spooking Deer put yourself in a position to enjoy Deer being pushed to you from your Neighbors not enhancing that you know a Lot of people even with access if your Neighbors accessing along their line Access along your line right in the same Spot neighbor has a stand on the Property line don't move 50 or 100 yards Into your property just because you Don't want to mess with this hunt you Only have 40 acres you just gave your Neighbor 10 acres out of 40 is he paying The taxes is he paying the mortgage no So walk right along your property line In that case but bottom line is you have

To adhere to those concepts of low Impact hunting and you just chip away You know how often do we hunt with a bad Wind never but we talk about the 80% Rule and and I wanted to hear that I Feel that I 80 90% of the time shoot the Oldest buck in the neighborhood anywhere I hunt public private land and I have Done that for 30 years so this Year you killed my Buck don't laugh it's true you killed my Buck which was your number one or two I Think Barry was number I don't know Which one was number one versus two to You between Bo you know kind of the one that walked By first and said I couldn't I couldn't Really decide that what about you I love Big Gates so I know about between B and Barry which one would you rather Shot B's unique I he he's but then so is Barry Barry's got an 11 inch brow time He sure right which is which is really Neat I don't The they're both sex I would have been Happy with either one so probably same Thing whichever one decided to you know Walk in front of me first would have Died you got an opportunity on them both And you killed one and you miffed the Other that was sad it was yeah it was Sad sad because we want him to I don't Want them to suffer during the winter Time too and that that was eating at me

Just I wanted to get them so bad and Part of it was I don't want coyotes to Get them and we haven't seen them now For another week it's gone by 10 days And so you wonder again wonder if he's There you know but but with that but With that if I mean we don't need to go Into detail you weren't patient no I Wasn't he came out I I probably could Have waited another 20 seconds half a Minute and but but it would have been a Lot clearer but let's back up and talk About wind so you're sitting in the Redneck up on the 67 yeah you see him Pop out he goes right into the corn You're not going to have a shot at him For where you're sitting because of that Wind you're not blowing it into the food You're not blowing it into the bedding It's being blown back out by our axes And back into that egg field which gave You the opportunity to sneak out of that Redneck go down our switch grass alley We'll call it tunnel yeah where you're Not seeing anything that was about a 200 Yard Sprint leaning over running yeah Sprint and then you had left a turkey Chair sitting where you had hunted on The edge yeah and you hunkered down and You sat there and you waited for him to Come out and he did he came out exactly About an hour later but the He he had no idea that you were there Your scent wasn't blowing back into

Where he was going anyways and then he Came out he looked right at you hun like A a predator I just didn't P correctly No you P yeah you yeah you missed and Then he looked back at you and said I'll See you next year and he just kept going I hope he's hurt we don't need to go Into that but hopefully he uh this this Winter has been really easy on him it Was like what 65° the other day in February crazy we had a lot of mid 50s No snow no deep snow for him to and Let's go back to uh I shot your buck Yeah I had Co so you did shoot a nice Buck nice eight-point not the big eighto But it was the mediumsized one uh one That was a pretty nice one Dylan and I Were able to pass him up um I don't know If I saw him more than once but bottom Line is I was able to watch them and uh Really enjoyed watching them um and and I was going to watch Jackson and it was My turn to watch Jack and you and I both Pushed that and when you shot your AO he Was you were watching Jax and so um I Hunted with Jack a couple times I could Have shot Junior the one night and which Would have been really cool but he's a Beautiful four-year-old he was on the do Not shoot list and um kind of going back To you can't shoot him at five if you Don't if you don't pass him up at four Sometimes um where he doesn't get a Chance to get to five but

Um you know I was going to stay home and Watch Jackson and I really I mean that's and It wasn't like I weasel my way in no you Didn't but it but yeah especially Because you gave me Co it wasn't even Like I gave you co you you wer sick yet No I'm just saying that's what I mean I Didn't like Welly this a good time Coming up here I I need to be really Close to Jen so she gets Co and I can go Hunting it was you got got sick on your Own it's and then you got me sick I did And I still hunted though you did and For me it's one of those maybe I'm Stupid I truly enjoy watching how Excited you get every time you go Hunting so that's so that's a part of it Too and you know we talk the whole time About strategy and where we're going to Go you you know you take my opinion on Hey I'm thinking about something here or Here where should I go and with B when You went out there we talked about this Last time you sat in a stand the wind Wasn't ideal so you got out of there and Then you went to it looked ideal on Paper yeah it did then when you got There it was not good so then you moved And you went over to the Apple plot and That's that's part of uh when you hunt In Hills you can get a birming effect And so the wind comes in at an angle the Angle should be good but it hits the

Side of the ridge system and just like Water if it hits that that Ridge and That burm it it turns in front of you And so it kept turning every once in a While I could tell I blow bubbles out of My mouth but I could see the bubbles all Of a sudden start going to that way Instead of this way it's really confus Using cuz I'd sit there and they'd go Like this this this and all of a sudden One would go that way so with Bo with Bo We we've been talking about the the Concepts are all the same whether it's Public or Private what was The point for you where you're where You're like this is exactly why I was Able to shoot B knowing his Patterns um all the sign that we get Scrapes rubs in that area getting an Occasional picture of him here and there We didn't get a lot of pictures of him But you know he's in that Area he beds in that location when he Leaves that location we know what Direction he goes he's eventually going To go through that small food plot that Water hole we lined everything up so out Of that bedding areir we created it Joel Helped us with that this year and then Uh put the water hole in then we have The small food plot we have a bigger Food plot that's like an acre and then

We have a bigger one that's like a 2 and A2 acre and those are all like over a 600 yard per AP but when they start Running they go from one to the other And so I love sitting at the what we Call the Apple plot just a small little Intimate look that they go by and so Then we had a cold front that was October 27th I believe and um that same Cold front as it went through I was Actually hunting because it was still Kind of gray and dark and that was Dropping that night and um but then I Was able to Hunt the uh that cold front on the back Side of it over in [ __ ] Valley two days Later and shoot a nice buck over there That number two but the cold front Knowing where he should be that time of Year uh Dylan and I had passed him up The year before which is kind of cool When because when you watch these bucks It doesn't matter if they're two you Shoot them at three or if they're five And you and you watch them at four and Five um you get to know them and that's Why we like putting those trail cameras Moving them you're just constantly Trying to hold down exactly where they Move and um and then that is always Verified by sign too rub and scrape old Scrapes old rubs and uh and knowing it So do you have a favorite between public And private you know we hunt the private

It's kind of our game uh we can work on It all year what I like about public Honestly is it's to me less stress that Make sense it does would you say private Land is more rewarding when you shoot a Big deer I can't say that it was pretty Rewarding going out to Pennsylvania and Shooting that one what's the difference Um you what's the difference what was The difference between shooting that Dear and Pa and then being able to shoot B because there was emotions on both Ends of it I saw them both So on our own land we had videos and Pictures of both for four years got to Know him we hung stands with him in mind And you do that um I've done that with a Lot of different box where you're you're Looking at like man I hope Bo comes by This when we're working on it and um or Berry or whatever buck and so that's a Big part of it plus all the Sweat Equity And just overall work that goes into it As a team you know Wes helps us Sometimes Dante's over here too uh so we We work a lot as a team we talk about it We shoot videos on it so it's just it's Uh kind of like yeah the stuff works and It works again it's worked for the last 25 30 years and it works again that's That's a satisfaction of these Concepts Work everything's Di then public land It's different because you're going in You're spending little to no time

Scouting you're going in getting set up And you're shooting a nice buck in a Location that other people haven't seen A buck like that in 20 30 years so it's A little bit different um it's a feeling Of man you know these Concepts that I Use on private land work out here too And they do work and and so to all of a Sudden have a nice buck fall in your lap And to actually be able to go on look at Him for the first time you know that Buck that I shot with Dylan in Pennsylvania Dylan sitting behind me Like 12T and I shoot that deer we see it Fall it's about 75 yards away I think I Sat down with Dylan for at least 5 Minutes maybe 10 minutes before we even Walked over to the buck it was almost Like walking over to the buck can't wait To see it but then the Hunt's done the Work begins it's kind of like we sat and Enjoyed it Dylan shared some of his Coffee with me I had an oatmeal pie just Sat there and reflected with Dylan and It was it was really cool it's different It's just different I I can't you know I Can put into words what it was like Going you know with both of them um like Bo I couldn't wait to get to him yeah This what he looks like you know this is But um with the buck and Pennsylvania it Was almost Like okay got one and uh why we why it's So different on private land too that's

Why we name the buck we don't have any Name s out in public land I hear people Say oh that's stupid to name deer it's Cuz they're not going after Target Bo They're not going after individual bucks They don't know these bucks from four Years or all say name them because the Big eight can only be used so many times We talked about that last podcast it's Kind of uh kind of ridiculous the big Eight the Big 10 the wide eight the wide 10 the narrow 10 the heavy 10 I mean we Even had problem here though we we've Been calling that uh that big eight that We had we've been calling him the big Eight and I don't I think it was you who Said we we just got to name this deer Yeah and and we did a few weeks ago but So Oho so publicly and privately and Bow and then your PA buck that you got This year well the one in Wisconsin's a Big nine yeah but have a name for him But but where I'm going next is going to Be similar with B we were able to drive The side by side right to him yeah with The with your big nine in in Wisconsin you and Dante just drug him Down the hill pickup truck was right There threw him in the back and we were Done Pennsylvania Pennsylvania so what Do you think of packing out deer if You're by yourself I don't know how you I the story that you tell about doing it By yourself and not packing out your

First one but dragging out your first One one I don't know how anyone could Ever drag well you you saw like where I Where I shot that one yeah I told you to Get up to that point from the backside Where I was hunting it took two hours to Drag them up one step at a time right And you're dragging the whole deer and Then to go across that flat where we Walked in the exact location it was an Hour and then to go back down Hill all The way to the truck it was 2 hours so 5 Hours I just don't think that's smart so The way that we did it well I I was you Know 24 years old then you had a purpose You needed to show people this Buck yeah I was 24 but at the same time I had Never been exposed to fra frame packing Or packing out deer and you met a guy When you that was 93 when you were first Out there was 23 years old yeah and this Older gentleman basically said you got To get yourself one of these Sunny yeah And he's walking in with a Long John Shirt on and just regular pants hunting Pants and then uh he had all his coat And stuff in his frame pack and then When he shoots his deer he wears that Stuff out or slashes it to his pack and Carries the deer out you know so that's Kind of what we did with yours yeah what Did you think of that I thought it was Interesting I'd never uh never done that Before we the deer wasn't even we didn't

Even got the deer no you basically Removed all that pretty easy wasn't it It it was it wasn't uh something that Was hard everything in garbage bags yeah Put it in the pack and then between you And Dylan and I um your pack was Probably the heaviest and Dylan and I Were probably about the same but I am The strong you were carrying huh I am The Strongest I don't think so you want to Do arm wrestling contest right Now they they gave the heaviest pack to The weakest person let's put it that way I just about was ready to say he's lying He's lying but no but it was it was Pretty heavy your pack was Heavy Dylan Had to help you put it on you weren't Putting it on by yourself yeah it wasn't Terribly heavy but it was probably 65 70 Lb but that's a big but that's a big Difference when you're hunting public Versus private too we have so many Trail Systems here that getting side by side Pretty much anywhere one of the reasons We clear all our Trail systems out yeah Right yeah we can get a deer out of There now yeah we'll put a cber down There so we can go get that deer if it Drops from those three stands yeah right It's like we' we've done this and a lot Of other people have done it enough Where you're just like I don't want to Drag that deer any more than I have to

Dante's deer from two years ago remember When him and Dylan had to drag that up I Mean it was now we have a road within 10 Yards of there right so down the Downhill side I think we roll it into The back of the side by side yeah so There's our our our new side by side the New ranger we have winch on the back we Sure do so Jeff and I don't have to I'm Sorry so I don't have to pick up this Deer and throw it in the last year 45 I Don't even think you helped me put that Thing in the bed someone had to stand in The bed and pull it up yeah but you were Pulling I was doing all the heavy Lifting and and we both said after that That what would we say if that thing was 10 pounds more I think if it was 5 PBS More I don't know yeah we would have Gotten help or something when by the Time it got in the back of the side by Side you're were both Like yeah well we figured it out yeah But there's but there's a you know your A couple that that's a big difference Between public and private yeah you know The but it was still but the hunting Concepts are still the same as are the Same the getting the deer out of the Woods in either scenario was still Memorable and fun and you wouldn't want To change it well talk about even just Access the camp I was a part of um they Had up to 17 guys I think they averaged

123 people um a year all the stats going Back average 5 and a half bucks a year Uh for four the first 40 years and so We're tons of History I was there when They shot their 200th buck in year 37 36 Somewhere on there there but um what we Found is that when they put the ant Restrictions in and the buck age Structure started getting older then us Michigan boys going out there I think it Was 12 years um I had my name seven out Of 12 years and Joe LK had it four or Five out of 12 years and we shared some Of those years together for shooting the Biggest buck and it was just that we Didn't hunt the way they they hunted They walked a lot and now we go out like Craig Schilling he's still shooting big Bucks and uh he sent me some mess this Year he was one of the ones that hunted Different and but for for the guys that Were used to just walking around all day They would end up shooting those younger Buck and it kind of goes back into the Same thought it's kind of like if you're Going to drive your ATV into the woods On private land if you're going to hunt Your food sources you can shoot those Younger box and you can shoot those Still especially if you create good Habitat but if you want to hold the Older box and shoot the older box Consistently you have to hunt different And that's where like CRA out out in

Pennsylvania he hunts differently than The rest of them I think Stu that was Out there at the time he hunted uh Different uh Stanley those guys they Hunted they were the three cousins um They hunted differently um than a lot of The people out there and and that Rewarded them with bigger bucks remember Steve shot a big buck one year and Dustin Dustin was Steve son I just Remembered all these names now but I was I hunted out there for you know a long Time but um to those older boxs on Public land you had to hunt differently And you had to hunt like you did on Private land only private land is Different because those little teeny Mistakes are magnified greatly and you Don't have enough acres to absorb those Mistakes so being that the concepts are The same public versus private when you Go into public you need to hunt it like It's private same Concepts and then Private you build it like you need to Hunt it right where do people fail Specifically and let's start with let's Start with uh public land how do people Fail when they go when they go in I Think they now there's there's something That could be said for hunting sign That's near the road and so sometimes at Works especially I'm thinking B uh maybe If a lot of people are out of the woods And it's gun it's later in January

January U muzzle loer um there's Opportunities a lot of people do the Same thing a lot of people walk um which Still hunting can be great we've shot Some nice bucks still hunting throughout The hills in Pennsylvania during Snowstorms and areas where you're quiet It was really super windy you could uh Especially snow on the ground you could Move about not spooked deer they Couldn't hear you looking over the ridge Coming in because it wasn't crunchy we Were out it was crunchy the whole time It was a terrible time to still hunt but People still still hunt and they'll Still hunt in the wrong conditions they Won't still hunt in the right conditions So if we're sitting down like we were I Think in 2018 I went out went out and Hunted and I sat and it was supp to snow And I sat in a Hemlock bottom in a flat That I've enjoyed hunting I've shot a Few bucks down there it just rained the Whole time and so the rain wasn't enough To push those deer down down there they Were actually all up top still we found Tons of sign we got up there that Happened to be like a/ inch of snow Because there's that much an elevation Change so there's snow up top there was Rain down the bottom but bottom line is Um there were there were sign up there We just missed and so hunting in snow Areas where you should be hunting in

Open areas um or non- snow areas um Going in with the masses um using the Traditional not cutting off not getting Into your own spots not recognizing the Lay of the lane and how dear actually Move through the area and getting into Those remote locations where people Might push to you um but basically Hunting like everyone else and not Becoming part of the woods but being an Obtrusive guest and so everything knows When you step on your foot on the on the On the leaves for the first time Everything in the woods knows you're Coming and and that's where people fail On private land what about public or I'm Sorry what what about private land well And that's where you know again it's a Lot smaller but from what I see most of The time where people are failing is They over hunt or hunt in general and You have to have food plots typically That you never hunt unless it's with a Gun and you're and you're hunting people Hunt with a gun and they put in the Shack right on the side of the food plot That's just just very counterintuitive To sit 50 yards back make some Hol so You can get in and out I always ask People can you get in and out of that Blind without spooking deer on the food Plot you have 15 Deer out there can you Get in and out without spooking deer if The answer is no move the blind shorten

The food plot get rid of the food plot Change your access do something because It is that black and white when can I go In and just go all in and and Hunt that Stand in the middle of my property that Looks really good and I see lots of Bucks well you see lots of deer in there Because it's in the middle of your Property and that's also why you don't See much the second time third time Fourth time if you do see a deer it's 3 Weeks later they happen to come through Again that doesn't mean you should be Sitting there it just means you're Hunting in the middle of the property And they'll say Well when should I hunt It say where can you blow your wind Safely while you're on stand where there You don't expect any Deer how can you get there without Spooking any deer well I get in in the Morning well how do you get out in the Afternoon what about the evening where Do you blow your scent when in when You're on the stand if the answer you Can't keep from blowing your s towards Deer you can't hunt there it's not to Say you can ever say never but you Should be set up your best form of Sun Control a stand Location so between accessing and Spooking deer hunting food plots and Spooking deer and then spooking deer While you're walking to and from your

Stands bedding areas making too much Noise hunting with ATVs those will blow Any of your chances from shooting deer Consistently and just could because You're in a good area and you shoot a Big buck every four or five years does Not make you a good Hunter you get a Participation trophy because you're in a Good area and you happen to shoot one Every four or five years I want to see The person that shoots them every single Season the oldest buck in the Neighborhood at least 80 90% of the time That's a good Hunter and so again kind Of going back to yeah you can't eat the Horns we're not just horn Hunters just Horn Hunters hey I want my kid to have a Decent batting average if he's playing Baseball I don't want him to bat a 100 And sit on the bench and he can't pitch Cuz he can't throw hard there's other Things he can do in life that maybe he Could excel at and I don't think it's Very good for our kids when you give Them skills or or or fail to give them Skills that help them excel at anything They do so if they want to hunt teach You how to be a good Hunter if they want To play baseball teach them how to be a Good baseball and if they can't get it Teach them something else because they Don't fail at something for for 5 years Before you think you know what maybe They should have been a football player

Or a soccer player or maybe basketball's Their thing maybe band's their thing Maybe riding dirt bikes are thing so Many maybe fishing's are thing let them Do the it doesn't mean they need to go Fishing and be in a tournament but to me Saying well we don't need to focus on The horns is almost like saying let's Just go fishing we really don't care if We ever catch fish we can eat we just Like being on the water we saw a school Of fish go by one time we caught some Small bluegill we almost caught a bass That hit the Limit that's great if that's what you Enjoy doing but some of us like to catch Fish and actually eat them and actually Succeed when we go fishing and that to Me is no different than you know Actually going out and wanting to do Your best at hunting and if you just Want to go out and Hunt follow the Tactics that we have and then apply them And just when a big buck goes by shoot The dough that's behind it right you Know you don't have to shoot the antlers But put yourself in a position because Mature Buck is the lowest hole in the Bucket what that means is if you can Hunt those then every other deer is a Piece of cake exactly when I hear people Say they can't shoot those in their Property what do you think of that you Got big problems there's big problems

Like what are you doing well there's Probably and I even on public land I see That because uh you could have shot in a Place You' never hunted on Pennsylvania Did your first doze go by in opening Morning very early yeah very ear U yeah Very early 11:00 10:00 yeah yeah so Bottom line is though is that there are People that can't you know it's all About experience and so a new Hunter if They hunt like they're going to shoot Mature Bock then they're going to have Venison to last a lifetime doesn't Matter what they shoot the hunting Becomes easy if your land your private Land If it's hard to shoot a dough you got Big big problems like Jen said yeah huge Yeah yeah and it would boil down to your Price spook and de out food plots you're Probably accessing poorly you probably Have set yourself up for you have to Walk through bedding years you have to Walk through food sources to get to Other point you over Hunt stand you hunt Stands with bad wind right one of the Things you can that determines a quality Private land layout is do you have Morning and afternoon stands if you Can't answer that question you got some Work to do and that's why we have this Channel to help people with that I was Going to ask you uh a mailbag question Are you prepared for that Jen's got mail

I'm always prepared with my mail bag are You yeah I think uh do you think we Should uh you know move on I'm pretty Sure I don't even know how long we're at Here but let's let's move on to uh Jen's Got mail and uh we could uh do that this The season 4 Shed Hunting yeah so there's been some people Asking about questions about that yeah a Lot of questions on shed hunting yeah a Lot of other questions about your Clothing that you wear during podcast we Should maybe address that too along with Maybe Jen's got jokes maybe we should Talk about your clothes first I what do You mean I am sitting at my in my own Home I'm I'm behind the table right here Okay doesn't really matter you look at Does that matter look at that I got Slippers on I got nice shorts on Slippers shorts and they know if you're Wearing Pants okay but I am I think sometimes When people look at you they probably Are just like they look at you almost Like a news anchor or one of those Meteorologists where they're like is you Wearing pants Today sometimes not well I'm telling I'm Telling Jeff like what should I wear Today like what shirt should I wear and So he's telling me that he he wasn't Sure what he was going to wear something

Like one of his first light t-shirts I Want to wear my cam so so that's I think It's nice so he's telling me I'm going To wear something first light and I'm Like okay and then he comes and he's Wearing one of His dresses shirts and he's wearing Shorts and then he puts his slippers on And I'm like my gosh but I'm like Clark Kent look at that first light logo Everything about you is Clark K yeah Anyway so going forward when people Watch your videos they should maybe Maybe that's what they should start Commenting on Cross hat I which just Like that hat yeah I think people are Going to start wondering if you're Actually wearing pants or not but Anyways um there's been some people Asking questions about shed aner hunting Sure and when is a good time to go on Your property when is a good time not I Know was interesting I saw J Chad gesy From we realy did you see his yeah did You see the one side missing what did he Say he said something like is it when Should you go when is it too early to go Look for the other side yeah or when do You look for the other half or yeah so When a good time so I look at Percentages you know we're fortunate we Have uh we have quite a few uh cell Cameras out in the woods a few dozen and So we can we can get a very good look

For example yesterday morning or what's Today it's the 10th February 10th yeah I Should know that date but Jeff's Birthday tomorrow yeah so should know a 10 thank you birthday on Super Bowl Sunday yeah the greatest birthday Birthday present would have been if the Lions got in oh my gosh yeah sorry to Bring that up honey that would have been Awesome but anyways I was I wanted them To get to the Super Bowl and that's the Expectations next year and beyond for a Few years but to get to the NFC Championship was really special as a Lions fan I you got I really got to Wonder if I was going to see that in my Lifetime so you it's pretty awesome but Um yeah I look at a percentage and so And this can change greatly because in The up of Michigan we'd watch the Migration Trails coming through and that Would be between Christmas and New Year's and at that time over half the Bucks would have already dropped at Least one side or both and so they Dropped then because of nutritional Stress um environmental Stress it's not just the photo period Where deer lose it like the leaves are Turning um it's not just that there's a A stress and uh John aoga Deer research Biologist he told me about the deer they Had in a one mile enclosure up there how They were pellet fed deer and so

Supplementally fed they had all the Nutrition they needed to survive the Toughest a winter and that area is Actually the shingle shingleton the Petrog grade deer yard and um they Averaged about they still average about That was right across the street from Where Joey lives where Joy grew up you Know Autumn's fiance my daughter's Fiance but um they average about 225 Ines of snow uh per year ton of snow and The deer on the outside would drop end Of December early January sometime Around there pretty consistently the Deer on the inside of the closure Enclosure would actually hold their Antler sometimes into March and so huge Difference two two months difference Because of just the feed everything else Is the same same weather same photo Period everything but those areas uh Big Woods areas where they don't have the Complement of Good Egg fields um food Plots uh food plots make a big Difference especially that food right Before they go into the winter going in With a full belly big difference when Deer stressed and you'll even see that Around our area our area I would say That 70% are still holding what do you Think I would agree with that over well Over half yeah I would certainly agree With that but a week ago I would have Said 90 85 well and the some of the

Bucks that we're seeing that have Already shed their antlers are ones that Are they're hurt well yeah we had Berry That was limping around uh Junior we Haven't seen for a while and I suspect It's because he's he lost him and he's Limping and I I've been getting videos Lately because I want to see if do just To see even Isaac or shorty if he's back So with that so with the if 70% are Still holding is it a good time for us To go in the woods next week or is it a Better time for go for us to go in the Woods at the end of February let me back Up on that timing for a second only to Say that you can have an area here but Let's say in we're in southeast Minnesota so let's say you go further West let's say you get into a big wooded Section that doesn't have the complement Of that a they don't have a lot of food Plots those deer might be at uh you know That uh 70% of dropped already because They don't have that same uh nutrition And habitat diversity to add and take Away that stress for we still had bucks Fighting yesterday on February 10th in The morning two they look like a Three-year-old 2-year-old 2-year-old 2-year-old 2y old you know you put that Video out on Instagram with a bunch of Those turkeys turkeys you want some Reference hit Jeff's Instagram and and Check that out so but um but yeah so I'm

Looking at it Like we know antlers have dropped in a Certain Spot um we we have areas we could go Into and I'm thinking like uh Leo's plot Where are we going to push deer there Too the rest of our property right so if We went in and looked around Leo looking For Berry sheds I don't think we're Going to really do much damage if we're Rocking around in the the Beaver um over behind Gold Rush down Into the valley towards the Karen um if we're walking around the Point right now around redneck corner I Just think it's kind of invasive yeah um There's a lot of De betting those areas There areas we can drive by not spok About on the a Fields cuz they're They're so far in and tipped down um There are areas I would feel comfortable Going in and looking around a little bit Uh right now but generally when we start Hitting shed hunting and just not care I Want to see those deer down to only 20 30% are still holding and even then if We have oo and he's still holding in two Weeks and he's around the Gold Rush the Badger we're not there yeah someone Asked uh why I don't remember who it was Or where I saw it I forgot to I didn't Ever answer the question someone asked Why we called it the badger oh it was so Out story so it was Dante it was two gun

Three gun seasons ago was it three gun Season open days ago yeah opening days Of Dante gets out there 2021 and uh it Was a stand he had never been to before Um but he knew how to get but he knew How to get there so it of course it's Dark so he walks in there and ties his Gun on goes up the stand so much as gets Up there gets his gun pulled up and he Looks down cuz he sees something by the By the ladder and so he shines his Flashlight on it and it's a badger and So Dante sends a group text and he goes To Mike and J do we have badgers around Here and I think before we could answer It the second text message came through And it was and do they climb trees yeah Which is just so funny he was actually He yeah he was a little scared so that's Where which is fine they do have a Reputation so that's where I uh we call That the badger plot anyways um yeah That was funny and so that's where the Name the badger plot came in uh Leo Leo's plot he's a good friend uh he won The hunt raffle and uh good friend of Mike's and that was three years ago now It was wow yeah and Uh yeah Leo missed uh lucky and so we Call it Leo's plot from there cuz we had Fun hunting with Leo and wish we he Would have shot it we felt sick for him Cuz he felt sick and I know he does to This day day but um but yeah I uh you

Know we have those areas where I think We can get in and out we have certain Bucks that we don't want to Spook um and Really it doesn't matter we know these Bucks made it we're going to go turkey Hunting pretty soon anyways pretty soon Meaning mid April which is exciting baby Comes early April so we'll have a little Time in there do you want to tell them The name you didn't tell them last time Oh yeah we could do that we we're naming Our little girl uh Lily uh Lillian um They we're going to call her Lily so When I talk to Lily most mornings or evenings sometimes Twice a day um I call her Lily Jackson Callers calls her y y yeah Y but it was crazy because just real Quick Jackson knew his name and so um Jen he knew your voice knew my voice I Think he knew his name too and even the Uh nurse that all you already knows cuz He he's crying Jen's crying I have my Hand on both of them he's on the warming Table thing and and I'm I'm saying it's Okay Jackson it's okay and you just Quiet right down and so um and then it Wasn't just then it was several more Times in that same situation and then For the next few months um let alone at The hospital we could be in the middle Of the night and I'd just say it's okay Jackson it's okay it's okay and he'd He'd go back to sleep or he'd stop

Crying and so I want to do that with Lily and uh and so that's where we I Talk to Lily probably more I what I Don't do with Lily I haven't done yet But with Jackson I said first word daddy First word daddy first word daddy first Word Daddy I did second word mommy yeah I don't think I even snuck that in there It was it it wasn't very often yeah yeah Maybe call that other person here Mommy But yeah maybe but uh I haven't done That with slowly though um but anyways Um you know I look at it like when You're getting down 20 30% um you think the Bucks you're after Have already dropped but even just if You don't have the luxury of these Cameras out here right now um just Looking at that same timing every year You know for us I would always say the End of February early March would be That time frame now if I knew something That dropped in early January and our Normal timing is the end of February Early March well why not go out there in The end of January look around we did we Looked for Barry a little bit you know Before it before it snowed right and so That's another thing too if you know You're a long ways away from the other 80% falling and we were we came came in From you know the roadside we didn't Access through the middle of the Property at all so we were we did a good

Job there that's like a it's kind of a Timing trip but if you know they're not Dro until say and and I could say around Here like right now it's February 10th I Would say we're going to be in that 50% Range here within the next several days And to the point where if we went out Fe February 25th 28th somewhere around in There you could probably say that 70 80% Had dropped And uh you know somewhere around there And then it seems like if they're Holding still I've seen them in early Early April still holding I'm trying to Remember the latest I've ever seen I Think it was end of March I think middle To end of March I think is the latest I've Seen uh personally and what sucked last Year is all their snow so remember on Your birthday Yeah March 25th your your goal is to find some Shads birthday sheds that's all I want And what did we find we found lucky Which was pretty awesome now we didn't See him this year we didn't I think Which is sad very sad but um um we found His he was a 5-year-old and um but even Then on the North facing slopes we still Had snow yeah we did we're still walking Through and that was like we could shed Hunt within a week of that otherwise There was too deep of snow yeah and then We got more snow early April our friend

Tim was out here for the end of April That's trout season right yeah and so so We were driving starting to get a little Green and we saw berries across the draw And we're able to walk up to it which is Crazy they're both set just sitting Right there there was a bunch of white In the woods it just yeah crazy to think About the snow last year versus right Now and that was at a time where we're Starting to gear up for turkey season You know in April and your turkey season I don't think you probably know the Dates but what is it April 206 29th Somewhere in there yeah and then I hunt The next season yep so you're going to Have Lily early April right so then We'll be at Lily and I will go out and We'll go turkey hunting we'll have a Girl hunt so Jackson uh Jen shot at Tom When Jackson was 3 weeks old it was it Was uh 37° at the time we'd been sitting Out there for 3 hours we just meled him Up and went out there and he stayed Quiet the whole time and woke up after You but not even after you shot he woke Up when we got him out of the popup out Of the out of the blind yeah because I Put my hand over his head we had them Nestled in a wool blanket it was below 30 when we went out it was beautiful it Was it was like a perfect day yeah that Was really awesome Um but anyways uh I

Would i' I'd want to hunt when it's more In that 2/3 have dropped 3/4 have Dropped and it's and they're coming off Quickly as opposed to more early because You will you will spook those bucks off And if you're waiting on older bucks Then then they'll go away so there's Some people just like going all the time Sure and I know people that put on many Miles but they're hitting a lot of Public land spots a lot of private land Where they have permission they'll hit It this weekend they'll wait three weeks Hit it again nose did but it was more so At the uh I would say like mid- marchish You know the land owners around us uh I Would just ask for permission if I could Cross property lines from mine to theirs And it'd be nothing for me to walk eight Miles with Rebel right in a day yeah you Know and I I would say um I have a I Have a mail bag that we get consistently And people will send us an email and They'll get a hold of my email somewhere They'll email they'll email you or Jesse Jesse doesn't even forward them on to me But it's uh can you help and it's They'll have three paragraphs that Describe their land and what would you Do um do you do any online consultation I'd be happy to pay you for a Time the problem is we just can't help And that's why I try to answer 10,000 Questions on on uh YouTube and other

Couple thousand on Instagram as much as I Can those Concepts really matter so for One online consultations to me cheat the Client because we never can be accurate As if we were on the property I believe We get 50% of the way there and when People are dozing food plots making Radical changes on their land that's Just not good enough and I know people That are doing that and I don't Understand why they do it I've done it In the past And part of the problem is to do a good Job the 2hour phone call turns into Three um you have an hour of prep time An hour of followup time there's 5 hours We're spending F uh 10 hours with a Client for a full day a full day my full Day fee is $ 39.50 a day so in order for Me to charge for that 5 hours I'd have To do a couple thousand and because That's what it's going to be so people Are thinking well we'll do a a phone Consultation it be a few hundred bucks No it's going to be a couple thousand Literally 2,000 it's what I would charge 1950 something like that but then at the Same time people want to do it I can't Go on a client trip and do it like on my Day off because it's my day off at the Same time I'm already turning away full Day client days and if I have to stick a 5H hour day right in the middle of it

And I can't do anything else that day Why not take the full day and make 3950 I already had to push my schedule aside And a lot of times people want to do it In the evening After they get off work I've done them On Sunday night when the family's Waiting for me to go to dinner and I Said it was going to be a two-hour call And turns into three and a half so I Have to end up doing on my own time and My old time own time as you know is very Very precious and so let alone to sit There and just throw out some Recommendations for someone that sends Over three paragraphs it turns into a 7-hour email uh I've even done that Where someone hey can you just call me And uh I'm going to have you come out my Land I don't call anymore because I've Had too many 2hour phone phone Conversations turn into nothing just a Waste of time and um too many people Have taken advantage of that over the Past to where just don't do it we can't It's not accurate we can't charge enough To make it worth it and um you know We're like an attorney where we say okay We we charge this amount per hour and if It when we're just going to send you a Bill it's just not the way the way it Works and even if it was you might not Like our hourly fee you know for what we Normally make on a day so the days are

Precious um Dylan and I we shot um 14 we Shot 25 in two days of filming the last Two time last two Mondays we filmed we Fil them again this Monday for a third Time but we've shot I think it was yeah It was maybe nine 10 shorts um four Videos for partners including uh camel And uh Cam and then we shot maybe 11 of Our own um something like that I think The last time you filmed you said you Shot I think 14 and right and that was The most you guys have ever shot in a Day we Shot 14 two times ago 11 this Last time so yeah for sure but yeah that Was 14 probably wasn't a day yeah Dylan Does drone work too on those days too And he did it's a full day yeah it's Very full day um but the bottom line is The days are full and so we can't I I Tried to just get out some comments and To the point where things have places That's why I Always uh try to finish client drawings Where I get in trouble someone will say Can you make an adjustment on that Drawing well when I get home I have no Time to draw I draw those with the Client I give that to them on that day We fully discuss it on average about an Hour hour and a half of discussion in Notes literally about 30 pages of notes Because I've had a client um had that Transcribed for him by his office Manager secretary whatever it was and it

Ended up pages of notes for an hour and 15 minutes interrupt you real quick when People are asking you to redraw it it's Because they hey Jeff that 20 acres Across the road I was just able to Purchase it yeah or my brother um said We could use that land even though we Talked about it can you redraw that and I have a hard time saying no and so what Ends up happening is I say yeah sure I'll do that and then I I have zero time On the client trip I mean last client Trip I got I got back to the hotel at4 To 12 the one night which is ridic Ridiculous uh one another time was qu to 10 I plan for about uh 9 and 1/2 to 10 And 1/2 hour day with client um I can go 100 clients and not get done within Eight hours but very rarely should it be 11 hours and when you add on to an Average of three hours driving per day For client um it just it gets consuming So when I get back I want to just stare At uh you know a menu and order food and Kind of just talk on the phone to you And TX and kids and follow up with Friends and I'm not doing deer work Because the next morning I'm waking up An hour early and putting a video out Right to do deer work again the point is And then when you get home you know After your client trips that you're on WE there's a long honeydo list of stuff That we need to do on the property stuff

What we have to do for the business and Then filming yeah so it's just uh and we Sat yesterday before we left and in the Road making seed descriptions and new Seed names for a couple of our Pure Wildlife PL seeds I how many how many PLS do we have so 14 or 15 uh something Like that yeah I should know you know And then this morning we worked on that Again this morning you put your video Out I think we were doing that stuff Until noon it's Saturday I put an Instagram reel out yeah it's Saturday And taking care of Jackson in between Yeah and I don't know what time is it is Now and we're shooting a podcast point Is and it's yeah and then we're leaving Pretty soon cuz it's Jeff's birthday Tomorrow I don't know if we mentioned That birthday celebration birthday Celebration good good dinner tonight Yeah we like going to Johnny Steakhouse And oir yeah that's a place to really Enjoy going their food's good yeah and I Like the atmosphere um you have to make Reservations pretty far in advance Usually and then I stay at holiday when I go it's not the nicest is not the Worst but they're everywhere it's not That nice though oh that one's nice it's A holiday end yeah it's it's nice well I'm not saying holiday ends are bad I'm Just saying they're I'm saying what I Like about the holiday ends is they're

Everywhere MH and they're pretty Consistent so the bedding the room decor I would say so you know I don't get you Know not going into one and it's almost Like you go into a different hotel with Different decor and it's kind of where Am I at you know I wake up and and it's Just I don't know you don't sleep as Well it's it's different I know what to Expect and so anyways that's where we're Going up tonight for Jeff's birthday Dinner I don't know if we mentioned it's His birthday tomorrow February 11th Should we Sing I'm not singing why not are you Singing tonight you're saying no I'm Saying like right now you can the three People that are watching this still Maybe they'll sing along Okay that's good I didn't are you going To sing I okay let me let's hear your Voice crank it out Babe happy Birthday that's about it okay I was just The cake and popping out you know I was Just we have no strippers I I wasn't Saying that you really you really Brought this down sorry for the kids That are watching um we we we sometimes Use these tools where we take the tape Off boxes we call them strippers and so I don't know that's what you're talking About the Box yeah those yeah strip the Tape off and yeah anyways that went down

A rabbit hole real quick how about the Jens got jokes yeah let's let's just Move along yeah move along I think I dug My own hole there so the Jens got jokes This is a good one I think it's funny I Think all my jokes are funny when we say It's a good one any anyways me and three Other people think it's funny oh I did Bring my mug this time I don't think I Don't know if you can read That that joke Champion I'll put it Right in the middle Before we do the before we do the Jen SC Jokes there specifically was somebody Who commented on the hey you should put Time stamps on these things mainly just So we can fast forward to Jen's joke I Think they said fast forward through all The crap so we can get to Jen's jokes I Mean that's why these people are still Listening that those comments Jen loves Them read itself well I do because I'm Just like hey people like my jokes they Think they're funny anyways why does a Bicycle not stand up on its Own I don't know it's too tired Jeff Oh get at twwo tired got two tires here You go thank you you you get the mug mom Joke Champion they probably don't even Make mugs like that no I think you're Still it's still dad joke champion Because typically moms don't make those Jokes so you can be a mom and win the Dad joke Champion award does that make

Sense I mean it's Dad joke Champion so You you just make dad jokes you know That doesn't basically I just killed the Rest of the population in Jokes no yeah I yeah I came in and I won The dad this is getting really confusing Is it So bottom line let's back Up you can shoot the oldest bucks in the Neighborhood consistently you can Concepts cons just follow the concepts It doesn't matter if you're on public Private land doesn't matter the age go For that top 20% whatever that age is um Always just look to shoot those older Bucks you can always have a Target you Don't wait someone said well I got some New some two or three year olds we're Going to not hunt the property for 5 Years what a mistake M get out there and Hunt uh learn how to be a an actual Hunter and killer um and and and not in A bad sense just learn how to be a Predator yeah learn how to be a predator That's a good way to put that um but we Are signing off episode 20 in the Work

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