The Life of an Idaho Houndsman // ElkShape Podcast

The life of an Idaho Houndsman – Leon Brown of Clark Fork Outfitters goes over his upbringing as the son of a Houndsman. The trials and tribulations of being a north Idaho Outfitter. The adventures and crazy stories of being in the mountains all his life. #elkshape

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So Leon Brown Clark Fork Outfitters Let's get into your history as not just An Outfitter or guide or houndsman but How did you get started in hunting well Um I guess to start with I I've been Living in North Idaho all of my life and From the time well before I was even Born my dad had had hounds and he he Owned plots um and uh My mom used to say when she couldn't Find me when I was like three or four Years old she always knew just go look In the doghouses I'd be sleeping in one Of the Dog House you know I guess you Could say I was pretty much raised in a In a in a dogghouse with a hound dog you Know um but Um you know I always hunted from the Time I was young I think my dad took me To my first Bear tree when I was Four and um he started taking me cat Hunting when I was about 10 cuz Being out in the winter and stuff he Waited till I was a little older and Whatnot Um you know when I was 15 I uh we were living Up around Naples out behind MacArthur Lake and Um there was a road that went up on White Mountain behind the house and one Weekend I went up there on a snowmobile And I cut a nice Tom lion track and I Came back down to the house and I told

My dad about it and and Um he said uh you know I'm not really Feeling up to it why don't you just take Those dogs and I I still remember what Dogs it was it was it was Uno and Tarzan And Jane and he said take them up there And turn them on it and you just see if You can see if you get you can get this Thing done by yourself and I ended up I Put those dogs on that thing and I Walked after that cat all day long on Foot this was before we had any GPS or There's no GPS right no no there was no GPS back then and I knew it was headed Towards another road but I had no idea If it would make it there or and I just Knew my best chance of making sure I Didn't lose my dad's dogs was if I Walked behind them so I walked all day Long and finally right before dark I Caught up to the dogs and they had treed This nice big Tom Um and uh I shot that cat out and Skinned it in the dark by Myself and then I ended up walking all The way back to the house because it had Crossed that other road and it was Closer to go back to the other Road and Then walk down to the house and then of Course the next day after school I had To hike all the way back up to where the Snowmobile was and get it um because we Only had one running snowmobile back Then and um that was the first time I

Ever caught an animal with hounds by Myself how were you 15 dude you are a Gangster at age 15 first off like Walking just trying to keep up with dogs And and then having the wherewithal to Stay on them and not shortcut it out on That road and try to you know game it You got to just do your due diligence Stay behind the dogs and then you walk Up pretty good cat take care of it and Then you skin it in the dark I bet you Didn't have a headlamp no there wasn't Much for headlamps back then we used to Carry usually like three and four sell Mag lights they weighed about 12 pounds Each and um you know then you might have Another little backup little ever ready Flashlight to cell in your pocket or Something um but uh yeah so that was Kind of the beginning of it and then I Just I got out of high school and got by The time I was 16 or 17 I had a couple Dogs of my own and got out of high School and started um hunting well even When I was still in high school I hunted Every chance I got every minute and as I Got into my 20s I eventually got a job Guiding um part-time in the winter and Um because I'd get laid off from Construction or logging or whatever I Was doing in the winter time and I Wanted to hunt but I couldn't afford to Hunt every day on nothing but Unemployment so I finally got a job

Doing a little bit of guiding um um the First Outfitter that hired me was Stan Suite um was MOA River Outfitters and uh one thing just evolved Into another and Pretty soon by about 07 06 05 maybe even Four Um I was pretty much guiding as much as I could I was working for three four Different Outfitters in Idaho and I was Doing some stuff in California and Nevada too and still doing a little bit Of construction on the side here and There and then the economy crashed we Had to housing crash in 2008 and I Pretty much quit doing construction all Together and started just guiding um From like 2008 through 11 2012 mol and I Bought Clark Fork Outfitters and um I Quit running around the country and um Guiding for other Outfitters and that's Kind of where we've been ever since um In 2014 we were able to buy out um Idaho Mountain outfitting From uh the clemenson and that was a Contiguous area to the existing Clark Fork Outfitters area and combine the two Areas and um yeah so that gave me a good Portion of the North End of unit four in Idaho um originally Clark Fork Outfitters just had um all of unit 4 a That hugs the lake yeah what hugs the Lake and then wraps around and up the Clark for River all the way up to the

Montana border there so that's like the One thing about being an Outfitter is Like you can't just go hey I'm going to Be an Outfitter today like there's only An allotment of concessions or whatever They're called yeah and so you had to Kind of designated areas right find out When this one became available and Outbid everybody or at least talk to Them yeah well I kind of had I kind of Had a bit of an inside track on both Areas because I had guided for both Outfitters okay so we had work Relationships for years prior to that um Actually the first Uh the first televised or videoed hunt I Mean professionally videoed hunt that I Ever did was for Clark Fork Outfitters And uh it was for a lady named Brenda Valentine who had um I know that name From back in the day yeah yeah she had That was back when she had white tail Adventures with Brenda Valentine on the Outdoor Network and um or Outdoor Channel I guess it was and um so that Was in 2004 that was um and that was Quite an experience for me um but she Did a mountain lion hunt and uh she got A nice cat and um we got some good Footage and um but anyway um I had Working relationships with both of the Businesses already and um you know I was Able to eventually Negotiate deals with both Outfitters and

Um so yeah for the last 10 years years We've had both both areas and just been Kind of TR trudging along yeah so 08 Kind of forced your hand to to Really Bet on yourself or double down on Leon Versus it's like you and Molly talked And we're like you know it's run dry the Construction run and I remember man I Used to I remember 08 I'm not I'm old And we're probably close in age and I Just was like you had to be able to Pivot back in that day yeah and so you Pivoted by just doubling down on Yourself and going all in on your own Outfit um were you guys apprehensive at All or uh just figured you you don't Know what you don't know and you'll find Out I mean oh it was it was probably one Of the most uh nerve-wracking things That we ever Did um to just go all in and say yeah We're gonna we're going to buy the whole Thing you know I mean when you're just Guiding you don't make a lot of money But you don't have you know you don't Have a lot of expenses either you know When you sign a you know six-digit Mortgage on something it becomes a whole Another ball game you know you've got a Yeah you got to double down and um yeah We worked we worked our tails off and uh It took us a long time we finally Um finally have every the business has Paid off anyway so that's a

Congratulations uh what year did you Graduate high school 19 94 okay so You're 94 I'm 2000 um talk to me about 94 to 2001 those are the years that I Didn't know anything about archery El Cunning which is now my life not really It's Faith Family Fitness then El Cunning but uh those years were magical In North Idaho and I didn't experience It would like to lean in on what was it Like going El Hunton in the Panhandle in The late '90s well I wish I knew more About I wish I knew more about elk Hunting back then um my dad didn't kill His first bull until I was almost about Ready to get my hunting license he had Been a houndsman Forever um and when you start talking About the far North Pan handle like up In unit one the the the Population wasn't as good up there in The cirks and the cabinets um and Particularly the cirks Probably uh in the 80s and 90s and 70s As it was in say the St Joe and the Cordelan river and further south in the Clear water and so on but we did see an Elk explosion in the 80s and 90s And so I guess it would have been About oh 1985 my Dad decided to take up elk Hunting and Um one of the first times he went went Out or the first time I ever went out

With him I actually stayed with my Grandfather or step-grandfather and my Dad hiked way up on this mountain and we Heard him shoot up there and um and he Killed a 352 bow that's his first Bowl It was his first bowl and the North Idaho 350 bow so you know it's got tree Trunk heavy you know that you know the Deal yeah it was it was a massive Massive bull they're built different up There there you know of course this is This was back in the day before Rangefinders or anything like that and Dad didn't judge the shot exactly right I mean shoot he was shooting a 30 out Six and it was a long shot and Unfortunately did not find the bull till I guess it was a couple days later or Something anyway um when he did find it There was a bear eating it Which Bluff charged him and he ended up Shooting the bear so my Real memory as a 10-year-old boy down There on the road with Grandpa is Watching my dad coming down the hill With a 350 bull rck over his shoulders Dragging about a 250lb bear behind him D Your dad's a legend is your dad still Alive yep that's cool how old's your dad Dad just turned 74 um Friday years young Is he was a was he a logger was he Construction no he did mostly Construction did some guiding um but Mostly construction okay yeah I just

Know from good friends like uh M Dan Evans he he was living in St Mary's and Hunting it in the late 90s and uh he Showed me all the photos and my Father-in-law Terry turnbo he's a Kellogg boy so he grew up hunting right There in the 70s when he was playing High School 80s 90s and even and I Didn't start rubbing elbows with my Father-in-law till I met my wife in ' 09 And by 09 I'd been kind of figured out El hunting a little bit and uh we Started talking to him and he was just Telling me you're not hunting the Heyday Bro it's not like it was and it was Pretty freaking good when we were Talking at that point in time right so I Could only imagine but just to give you An example was like he would say you Pretty muche and any drainage get a herd Bll to answer you and he'd have anywhere Between three and six satellite Bulls Spread out throughout the drainage and It meant and it's north Ido so like it's Vocalization and and I remember those Days you know when I first started so I Didn't kill my first bull until about 92 Myself and um I bugled that bull in was A five-point Bull and I bugled it in About a half a mile from our house we we Lived in a good spot when I was a kid I Mean I killed my first elk my first deer My first bear well no not my first bear But my first elk my first deer and my

First lion I pretty much walked from the House to kill all of them or I was Within walking distance of the house When I killed all of them but um so I Didn't even start elk hunting or or kill An elk anyway till I was like 16 years Old but I but the minute I bugled in That bugled him in after school one day And um I was hooked completely on on El Hunton and um I started guiding El In like ' 04 for Clark Fork Outfitters And I remember you know going in one Drainage in particular I remember Standing there and I Had a big herd bull in the bottom Answering me and then I had I believe it Was seven other Bulls in that in that Drainage that we're talking all around Him and then we Spotted I think it was two rag horns and A bike that were feeding on a Brushy Hillside on the other side they were in That but they weren't saying a word they Weren't even interested yeah no they Didn't they'd already had their butts Ran off a long time ago yep and they Weren't even they weren't even they Wouldn't even pick their head up when Another bull would bugle and I mean it Was like it was nonstop bugling in that Hole there was a bull bugling somewhere Mhm oh it was just it was it was crazy And I Mean I managed toine success as a guide

Archery hunt in the very first year I Ever guided archery hunters and I had Never even I had never even shot an elk With a bow at that point in time I Didn't matter of fact I'm not even sure If I owned a bow yep it was actually the Fact that I was like well if I'm going To be out because I'd always just been a Rifle Hunter and I'd always been able to Fill my Tag but I decided Well I guess if I'm Going to be out here guiding guys on elk Archery hunts I better learn how to do This myself you know and um Like I said I was fortunate enough to Find success that first first season First hunt I ever guided actually we had We we had I don't know how many bulls in Archy range um and it was the second Bull that we shot at that we actually Ended up killing um so that was really Where my archery elk hunting thing Started was about' 05 and then by 010 or Yeah by 10 I started finding wolf tracks In 2010 was that first year for you was The first year yeah you know they kind Of they came up through the clear water And then they got into the St Joe then They got into the South into unit 4 and Then there was wolves that were kind of Moving down out of Canada coming down Through unit one and the two populations Seem to have kind of met right where you Are they didn't they didn't really show

Up there the winter of 2010 when I was Lion hunting I found a single Wolf Track Walking through the winter of 2011 I Found a pair of wolf tracks walking Through the winter of 2012 there was a Whole Pack and by the winter of 1314 there was Multiple packs that's how fast they you Know took it when they did but you know Those years chills just cuz like I have A very strict timeline I had a place in The St Joe for years for 15 years my dad And I bought a cab and before I had kids And a wife when I actually had money And uh that was a joke but I uh we Bought it together and we bought it just For hunting right and so I grew up Hunting you know Units six seven nine and I there was a Point in time where I wouldn't mention Units on this podcast but I don't elk Hunt there anymore uh and so in ' 07 was like the first year that I heard Wolves it was in ' 07 and I was in Basically unit N9 real close to the Clear Water right and I was on top of a Mountain it was dark and I my was Waiting for my dad to meet me at our Meetup spot and I kid you not Leon I Literally when my dad walked up to me I Was like Dad do you hear that ambulance Why would an ambulance have its sirens On out here somebody must have got hurt And he's like I thought the exact same

Thing and then I did the math there that Ain't that ain't an ambulance Dan those Are those are wolves and I was like yeah We told a few people and they didn't Believe us or whatever and then it was 2011 when I finally seen my first wolf Pack in the Joe actually it was not the Joe it was the uh what's the uh what Part of the Cal Lanes ties into the St Joe well the south end of unit four yeah I mean the South Fork runs up towards up Towards like Lookout Pass yeah so it's Right in that area you know you go up Over Moon pass say you'd be dropping Down into the South Fork it was right There it was 2011 and I had um I was Hunting that particular unit I think it Was August 30th MH and on that side of The Divide you could hunt August 30th But if you were on the south side of the Divide you had to wait till September 6th they had changed the archery dates So I'm like well I got this tag let's go Hunt the north side of the divide two Two fivepoint bulls in a beautiful North Idaho Basin which those are few and far Between oh yeah no trees we're on the Rim we're watching two bulls feeding We're just waiting for The Thermals to Switch Leon and so this is great I got My old buddy Dave renberg with me and He's in his late 60s he's just kind of a Mentor and he's there to call for me and Then we hear a wolf howl and I was like

Did you hear that Dave and Dave can't Hear for for and he's like no I Didn't hear it and I was like no dud I Swear to you I just heard a did you hear That one did you hear that one and then It was all of a sudden every finger had A wolf howling and those two bulls just Jammed straight to the the bottom where The timber started in the bowl and I Looked at Dave and I said I'm going down There and he's like all right and we Went straight down into the timber to Try to catch up with those bulls and on Our way down we seen the alpha male and Female and at the time I didn't know What an alpha male female look like but I did get it on video sure enough it's The lead male dog and the lead female Dog hunting these same elk we get down In the bottom of that Timber and next Thing you know we're surrounded by an Entire pack and it's a double digit pack Uh pups juveniles adults and then the Two alphas and then the alpha male is Just not afraid of us he's like Literally just going back and forth just Trying to get a good look at us and Meanwhile I'm looking for this elk and I Can't even remember I I think it was Legal to hunt Wolves at that point what Year was it 2011 how did that go you know I think That was I think the very next year 12 They shut it down for a year yeah I

Was I was thinking that it was 10 we had The hunting season 11 they shut it down And then 12 we got a hunting and Trapping season but I could my my Timeline could be off by a year I got my Trapping license in 2010 but I could be Off on my dates I'm not sure but either Way I just remember we we did not have Wolf tags so we didn't shoot at wolves But man it was a crazy encounter and we Got it on video and that video is on YouTube somewhere and it's still my most Viewed video um but that was my first Real encounter and then ever since then And I don't want to go down Long Wolf Hole but like I've seen um at least 100 Wolves with my own two eyeballs from 2011 till my last year I hunted North Idaho elk was 2019 and a lot of that was Just me competing with them to haunt elk Straight up so herd Bull's bugling in The bottom I'm sneaking in I bump into a Pack that's sneaking in as well or if I Make cow calls I got a wolf coming in um And so there's just just so many Encounters that I I was telling Jacob Your guide about a few of them but I've Just seen him and then it just your Timeline's very similar to mine to where Well there's a reason that was the last Year 2019 that I ever just bought a North Idaho tago was just I'm just tired Of running into wolves I'm tired of Picking up Deo Cales specifically um and

Um I I'm not on wolves like They're a cool animal but it just seemed Like Wow it overnight they were there I mean Just incredible yeah well I think you Know I mean I think this is something That I mean I I don't know that it I Don't know that It there's anything we can do about it Now obviously they're here and they're Here to stay um I mean I know a lot of People who have dedicated a ton of time Into hunting and trapping them we're Never going to get rid of them by any Means um we're we're Doing our you know it's taking a ton of Effort just to kind of hold the keep a Lid on the numbers but I I do think that One of the you know one of the big Problems we've got with the whole Situation is that you know these aren't The wolves that that were here these Aren't these are not native wolves you Know this is a this is a a larger more Aggressive probably train that was Brought from you know up in Alberta Northern Alberta Um I I think that you Know Um like you say before the Wolves were Ever brought into Idaho Um I was starting to find an occasional Wolf Track coming out of Canada up in

Boners and you know I watched that go From a wolf track to a pair of wolf Tracks to a group of wolves and and by The time by the time there was getting To be like a group of wolves then people Were starting to talk about the wolves That had been dropped down in the npers And the the Wilderness and Yellowstone and um and whatever but Those wolves were still a long long ways Away the the wolf tracks we were finding Up around Bonner's Ferry just north of The Canadian border those were Native Wolves that had just moved in on their Own and um so I feel like bringing those Wolves here was really an unnecessary Thing they were on their way already They just hadn't quite got here yet I Think you're going to see that same Thing in Colorado where you know the the Reintroduction Wolves of 96 Yellowstone Are going to make their way into and Have Utah Colorado wolves if if people Are going to call BS on anything we're Saying I would just invite you to look At a colored map of a wolf in Wyoming And it'll literally tour the entire State and not even blink uh to the point Where when I've tried hunting wolves Myself I kind of started figuring them Out because they would like end up in The same drainage as me a lot of the Times about every third or fourth week Right they just show back up and you

Start doing the math kind of doing 70 80 Mile Loops they got a circuit mhm and They're um they're they're ficient Killers uh so I know in my home state Washington we've had wolves coming down From Canada always there's just been a Constant like there's not a border for Them no it's a blurred line and um yeah It's interesting at least your state Gets has a has a management program Imagine being in my state where there There's nothing we can do that's um you Know the the the lack of action by Washington and Oregon both because you Know they've been delisted in Eastern Washington Eastern Oregon for quite some Time and um I mean the lack of action by The the states it just um it's hard to Hard to wrap your head around it as a as A sportsman and as a hunter um you know It's Uh pretty sad to see the West Side just Dictate policy and you know um they're Not the ones that are you know the People in the people in Tacoma are not The ones living out here in Chila with wolf packs running through Their back pasture and whatever you know Well you look at Colorado I mean it's Denver and Boulder that voted ballot Boxed those wol him um you ever been to Bamp or Glacier yeah you know what's Cool when you go to a national park like There's no hunting allowed right so you

See mu deer and mountain goats and sheep You know what you also see Grizzly bears that don't give an f about You and aren't scared of you you know What's also interesting is those same Grizzly bears in the National Park also Roam outside the park in the same Grounds that we recreate in and it's the Same rule you can't hunt them so you get That same Behavior of well why would I be afraid Of man you know or even if your dogs ran Across a Grizzly it's not going to be pretty man So I to Pivot the conversation like I'm All for managing animals and making sure They're on the landscape like 1,000% but also I'm in favor of having Kind of dominion of the land a little Into the the lens Of I'd rather a grizzly bear have like a Memory of not a good encounter with a Human oh absolutely versus no Recollection of that ever and not you Know cuz how many Grizzlies have you ran Into in Just in your area I I have never had a Firsthand encounter with a Grizzly and We've only ever even had a couple of Like trail camera pictures um you have Had them on trout cam yeah mostly just One bear okay it it you know that that Bear um and it's just been in the last Couple of years and it doesn't stick

Around um it comes in there or I don't Think it ever came in there last fall But the two Falls before it came in There it hit a couple of baits we quit Baiting of course immediately quit the Bait um we don't want to you know Condition it and whatever and then it Wandered off went back across the Clark Fork River and went back up into the Cabinets you know really um yep um and So I've never had a firsthand encounter Um I've only seen one grizzly bear in Idaho myself Um but uh you know the fact of the Matter is they're spreading out more and More all the time and um you know I Think It's you know I think it's a it's a it's Actually a sign of a good thing I mean I I don't really want I don't want to deal With an encounter with one to be honest But the fact that that you know they're Showing up in more and more new places It shows you know how successful the Recovery is and has been and um Hopefully that success will eventually Lead to you know um the state of Idaho Being able to take control back over of Management Um but at any rate um yeah speaking of Like state of Idaho So we Idaho has to agree with the Fed so Federal fishing game on a certain like Number of breeding pairs for wolves

Throughout the entire State and Idaho if You flatten out Idaho it's a pretty big State you know Ian I've always said if You flattened it out it'd probably be Close be be as big as Texas that might Be an exaggeration but I don't think You're wrong sometimes like when you Head into the Frank Church the largest Wilderness in the lower 48 and you Flatten that sucker out so Idaho's got Trees unless you're talking southeast Idaho I'm not talking Island Park I'm Talking just right down the middle Idaho Timber country can't really survey via Aerial and getting precise count of Pairs but Idaho has agreed like Hey We're at your number and then some right So stay off her back right which is Still up for litigation and things like That constantly in and out you know but We're at the we're at a point where like Idaho has definitely plenty of wolves oh Yeah right you I I don't know of a Single place you can go in the state of Idaho where you aren't likely to find Some sort of wolf sign sure I mean it Might be a couple it might be a pair it Might be 10 or 20 of them but there's Wolves present on the land Cape Throughout the state I I I've never Messed around like in the OES or any of That stuff so I mean I imagine you get South AB Boise south of Pocatello down In there there may be some areas that

Are still wolf free per se um but um you Know just being the nature of what they Are um they're going To um undoubtedly with as with as Quickly as they expanded from the areas They were originally You know dropped and then the Wolves the The few that were coming down out of Canada as quickly as they were able to Inhabit the entire state of Idaho all of Western Montana all of Northwest Wyoming All of Eastern Washington all of Eastern Oregon and Northern California you're Talking about a scope of a little over 20 years M um that's a massive amount of Country so the little pockets that might Still not have wolves in them right now You know Um I don't Think you know unfortunately I don't Think it's going to stay that way well At least we can at least we have Trapping in place in Idaho when I say we I mean I'm a Washington resident so I'm Just cheering for you guys but uh been a Member of foundation for wildlife uh Love what they got going on there just Justin web Justin web good dude he used To work for you yep Um un yeah unfortunately I lost one of The best guides I've ever had but I lost Him to a darn good cause and he's Full-time on that which is really Excites me and Justin if you're

Listening I know you are don't be Discouraged be encouraged we need you to Stay where you're at like I'm sure he Takes his lumps it's he's he's he's an Uphill battle but man you're doing the Lord's work and if you guys don't know What the foundation for wildlife is Essentially it is a program to where you Can kind of Help not eliminate but you can help Cover some of the costs associated with Running a trap line for wolves in the Middle of BFE Idaho yeah it's a I mean It's a it's a it's a it's a Sportsman's Organization with you know um where it's A basically it's a way of doing some Shared cost if you're a member you know Any money that you put into the Foundation will end up getting used to Reimburse a guy who went out there and Actually took a wolf off of the Landscape it's a great it's a great Program um you know I'm I'm personal Friends with several of the founding Members as well as Justin actually Justin and I went to school in the third Grade together oh really oh yeah cool Yeah we used to go gr hunting when I was I mean yeah my earliest memory of Justin Web was me and him going grous hunting Out behind his old house when we were in The third grade so I've known him for a Minute okay but um if anybody's Interested in that and if you haven't

Already signed up and um got you know on Their mailing lists and things like that Um is where you can go to get any Information you want about the Foundation and essentially I'm just Encourag anyone all 10,000 of you who Bought an over-the-counter tag in Idaho Which is going to be a good segue for You Second please accompany that with a Cheap $40 wolf tag and then also while You're out get your membership help the Foundation reimburse some of these guys That are checking their traps every 72 Hours going way back tons of fuel in Their truck their snowmobile just their Time their effort only to find that Their pans Frozen and they got to Unthought and get it reset all the dying Of TR I mean guys TR rapping is an art And it's expensive in time and actually Money um a lot of money you get a Membership and you can help pay for some Of that and if you get a wolf you can Get reimbursed for your expenses as well It's a great organization but speaking Of the 10,000 plus tags that get sold Out on December 1st every year and I Know that's a lot of people are upset About how Idaho does it but it is what It Is Outfitters like yourself get Allocated some tags we get allocated a

Small handful of tags and um so that's I Mean that's that's a a great thing for Us and I'm just hearing now that Unfortunately There's there's going to be another Change and it seems like as soon as Seems like as soon as we figure out what What we got going on now then they Change everything again but what I'm Hearing is that um there's a there's a Bill in the house Ways and Means Committee right now To take a lot of this stuff to a Draw um and Um we're being told that they are going To protect the outfit or Allocation um I think that's cool but um You know I think there's been a lot of There's been a lot of unhappy people About the way that you know it's just Been such a it's been such a mad rush to Try to get attack Idaho for the last Couple of Years that Um everybody's complaining about it and So you know now the the new Um the new bill that is in the house Ways and Means Committee would turn it And I don't know the particulars I don't Know that this is I think it's going to Deal mostly with non-resident tags but I I just briefly had a discussion with an With a fellow Um actually outfitter's wife um

Yesterday and it wasn't even a a Discussion it was a messaging Session um but uh yeah apparently there Is a bill that's in the house right now On in the ways ways and means committee And it is to make I believe all Non-resident tags for deer and Elk um I'm not I'm not even sure if it applies To deer and Elk or if it's just elk or What I don't I don't much about the Particulars Um I believe it was Bill was It six something you know like I say I Just became aware of this yesterday oh Yeah people could look it up but it is It is happening I am a non-resident I've Hunted Idaho since 2001 never missed a year Okay I understand turn turn it to a draw I get the I get it uh I wouldn't would Be particularly stoked about it but I Also I have ways around this I could Hire you you could for a week if I don't Get my Oak see you Leon I'm still going Oakk hunting okay so well you you get a Tag it's valid trust me I know this you Hunt with an Outfitter and you doesn't You don't get your animal but it's still Seasoned you could you could keep Hunting after your outfit time maybe you Get one while they're with you but I Just wanted to highlight like you are an Option for those that didn't get

Attacked oh absolutely absolutely Archery or rifle um and then if it does Go to a draw it is what it is like I'm Not going to complain I'm not a person Stands around and complains I'm going to I'm going to make my own changes if I Need to change like one thing that sucks And I will agree with a lot of people is Like there's a pile of non-residents That show up fly in to boy see or Whatever here and they go and buy tags For their entire Squad and family Members I don't like that you know what I mean like in person instead of and While everyone else is waiting online to Get their tag and they're all getting Sold out because the guys in in person Are getting the Tags make a make a rule change Idaho Where you cannot buy a tag for anyone But yourself that would probably shut That down pretty fast as far as scooping Up all the tags um but I always think And I've always thought as an Outfitter Is a good backup plan if you didn't get A tags yeah to hunt and even North Idaho Because man you got still got elk Bugling and it's G to be a bugling game In North Idaho so it's going to be Exciting oh yeah in Fact I'll say it if you can get an elk In North Idaho you darn near can get an Elk anywhere else like this is teaching Grounds for how to deal with the brush

How to vocalize how to deal with other Predators that are pretty worthy Adversaries to these animals how to Navigate through some pretty steep nasty Country North Idaho is training grounds To make you a better Hunter yeah I mean I believe I believe if you can fill your Tag every year in North Idaho um you can Probably go anywhere and do it you know And we we've said the same thing about The hounds if you you know we've always Figured well if they can if they can Catch game in North Idaho because those Dogs have the same all those same Obstacles blowdowns you know on and on You know up and down up and down and Yeah it I think it is it is one of the More difficult places to hunt but we do Have the opportunity to guarantee people I mean no no we can't guarantee a 100 People a tag but for a select dozen or So people or whatever for you know we Can guarantee you a tag and that's worth Something in its own right to be able to I mean just to be able to you know call Me up and say Hey I want to go El this that and the other and the First thing I'm going to say is okay Well how old are you what kind of Physical shape shape are you in tell me About any bad injuries you've had this That and the other thing yes and um and A lot of people are going to be Disappointed after they get done talking

To me CU do you know what Huckleberry Brush looks like feels like tastes like Uh Alders uh but honestly I Leon and if You did we didn't get to hang out very Much on that cat hunt we just did but Man like North Idaho is in me man like That to me is home like I love that North Brush Country um you want to feel Insignificant you want to feel Challenged you want to see some wild Landscapes in the most beautiful densely Forested areas like just the video that Jeff edited with the cat in the bottom Of the Roaring Creek with the bright Green moss and the giant white Snowflakes like I can describe it Because it's burned in my mind as one of The most beautiful places on planet Earth sure and so I do think everyone Should come experience it and you can Get a deer tag you can get an elk tag You can get a bear tag which by the way I want to talk about bears with you Because I know I know you know a thing Or two um I didn't start bear huntting Until 07 and I went with Sportsman's Warehouse I was working for them and They sent me to go hunt with this kid Named well Joe cabal and his son Chris Cabal which I'm sure you know and I know Chris um I went with them in the clear Yeah the the clear clear water it would Have been in the St Joe or the clear was Clear water in ' 07 at their Bear Camp

And we were filming it for Sportsman's Warehouse and that was my first time on A Bear Hunt I brought my dad I think and Um just kind of watch these guys baiting And and doing their thing and Chris run Dogs as well and I just save you the Cliffnotes version is like I remember Distinctly my dad and I in Camp looking At each other going like dude we could Do this on our own like this this could Be cool to like like run a bait like They are like let's ask a lot of Questions and let we live right next Door to ID we could do this and 08 I Think we baited bears for the next 8 to 10 years like do DIY and we learned Everything from the cabal so thank you Cabals for unknowingly teaching us your Best tricks but honestly it was cool to See I met guys from all over the country That were coming to hunt bears and it's A Cool vibe like for for anyone Interested in Spring bear hunting with Someone like Leon is like you know You'll have to talk about using hounds Cuz I don't know a lot about it but for Just for even baates it's a pretty Lowkey hunt like you're not getting up At the crack of dawn but I promise you You are staying up super late and um Baiting is actually if I had a choice I Wouldn't bait right now and it's not Because I don't think baiting is I think Baiting is harder quite honestly for me

It's just so much time and energy and Effort it's a lot of work that I'm Better off not baiting and just going And spotting and stalking well you know The the thing about baiting is It can be very it can be Effective but it's only effective if you Are you know my what I always say is Your bears are your Bears will be about As consistent as you are that is to say If there's food there every day they'll Show up every day yep but you let that Bait run dry for over 24 hours and those Bears will wander Bear's going to find Something to eat he's going to wander And go somewhere else find something to Eat somewhere else so in order to do it Right you either have to you Know you either have to do it like we do It and be out there multiple days a week Restocking that bait this that or the Other thing and that means you have to Be somewhere in that you know somewhere Within driving distance you have to have The time the energy the gas money all That and the bait and all that in order To do it you know effectively um But if you you know I mean if you want To just come out and enjoy a nice hunt And whatever you know we've got the Baits that have been stocked for you Know some time before you ever going to Arrive to come hunting and um you Know we we put a lot of time and a lot

Of energy into our baits and you have The baits that have been out for Decades where like there are bears that Have onx in their brain and they have it Like way points dropped at all your Historical baits and that's all they've Ever known like they know there's a food Source there come spring oh yeah that's A huge advantage and you can't just Throw bait out randomly Willy knly and Be like oh this the Bears are going to Come and I can I can H over this explain That Nuance a little Bit well you know Typically you know like the very first Bait I established that was good and This was before I ever guided a this is Before I ever even guided a hunter um And I I still that bait I started it in The area that is now my outfitting area And I still have that bait going that Bait was started in about 1996 so that Bait's been there for like 30 Years and um yeah so there's generations Of bears that have come to that same Spot and um the reason the way I ke it On or Al was that over the years we had Struck a lot of bears with our hounds Driving right through this one little Saddle and So when the Bears started getting Educated enough and and a lot of what it Was was you know the forest service shut Down a lot of Roads so it made it where

There was just a skeleton of the road System that used to be there well it Wasn't that hard for a bear to stay away From those few roads and not have to Worry about getting chased around by Dogs Bears are smart they adaptt they learn That kind of stuff and it got to a point Where if you wanted to run a bear every Day with your Dogs um and I've never shot a bear at a Bait in my whole life I've probably Guided and Outfitted I'd be scared to guess how Many guys that have taken bears at baits I've never shot a bear at a bait in my Life it's just um I mean uh I guess by The time I started really seriously Baiting like with tree stands and all That stuff I was already guiding and I'm Not doing it for me I'm doing it for my Clients um and I had already taken a lot Of bears in my life by that point in Time I really no reason to shoot another One um other than the meat the meat is If you have if you don't eat bare meat Already you ought to especially spring Yeah well and I mean in the fall they're Great too you just just a lot more work Getting all the fat off of them I'll Take a post Huckleberry bear any day um So when you're setting up baits Leon Like and I'm going to get into where to Shoot a bear with a bow because like

That gets debated a lot and I really Want to hear from the guy who's had Countless Hunters succeed probably some Fail we can talk about the failure but You know for Me as I worked through places to bait Here's what I eventually did feel free To comment if I'm doing it wrong or not Like I said I haven't baited in a few Years um we're thinking about doing a Bait this year but mainly just cuz I got Some new new friends that are in getting Into bow hunting and I think that's one Of the best controlled environments to Make sure they don't shoot a s with Cubs And that they can make a pretty good Controlled shot you know spotting and Stock and a bear bears just don't ever Stop moving so when you're on the ground With a bow I've shot many spot and stock Man it is it's just nerve-wracking Because it's like they are constantly Moving even when they're just on a road Feeding they're spazzes but at the end Of the day what I finally found that Worked for me is you got to know the Rules you can't have your bait x amount Of distance from running water a National Forest Road but it doesn't mean You want to go 10 miles in the back Country because you gotta like you said Keep that thing fed right so finding Good topography Saddles Ridge lines Things like that where water's not too

Far away because they do need a lot of Water where they can bet and where you Can play The Thermals and get in and get Out to your set but I I I think I told Molly at the beginning when you guys got Here before we recorded it was like I Can't even tell you how many big bears I Didn't get that knew when I was in the Standing when I wasn't to the point Where we finally I won't say I in Invented this phrase but I pretty much Coined the phrase ground and pound is What my dad and I started calling it and We did it in like probably 13 or 14 we Would find an old skid road that dead Ended next in DET Tim and we would hike In a bar a barrel and a bait and we'd Get it loaded up and then we'd block it And we wouldn't put a tree stand up we Stopped putting tree stands up but what We could do is we could slip around in The evenings once the sun set or the Thermals or behav improperly and we Could peek around the corner with Binoculars and we could see if a bear Was on the bait or not with about 30 Minutes of daylight left and then we Could cover that 400 yards and we'd take Rakes I'm not kidding and we'd rake out The trail or the old cat road so that it Was quiet we killed several Bears on the Ground it was still over bait sure but It was ground and pound and what it did Is it showed me like when I had that

Tree stand no matter which way I thought The win was going to be or do no matter What the bear would Circ the big bears Would Circle get my win and not come in Those bastards so we started doing Ground and pound and that really and it Was more exciting to be honest with you To shoot them on the ground sure but That's what we started doing and then Since then I I really have been terrible At baiting just cuz with little kids and Stuff I don't have the time to go up Three times a week right yeah and you You got to be that committed to it or It's basically a more or less a waste of Time you know um but uh yeah and you Know it's it's funny because like I know I had one particular bait just comes to Mind I'd been baiting it for quite a While had several Bears on it this that And the other thing Um And had a guide go in and set up a tree Stand and um he didn't you know um he Didn't understand where I wanted him to Put it um but I thought well you know I Mean these Bears they smell us at these Baits all the time anyways even if he Has an inkling that we might be around Somewhere this that or the other thing It should be all right I started putting Hunters in that stand nobody was seeing Nothing nothing and I mean you know I Got multiple Bears coming to this bait

Anytime when there wasn't a hunter in The stand man I put a hunter in the Stand nothing and so finally we moved The tree stand and put it more you know Where I what I had where I thought it Would help and Immediately we started Hunter started Seeing bears and taking Bears out of That stand and so something as subtle as Moving your stand from you know uh you Know say when you walk into this bait Where the where the original Stand was Was at about 3 o'l to the bait well I Put the i instead of putting it there I Put it over here at 10 o00 and the Difference between that was the whole Difference in in Nobody seeing anything And guys seeing multiple bears in one From the same stand um so there's a lot Of little things about it one thing About bears is they're all individuals And um some of them and this is the same Bear that's going to climb right up on Your porch at you know 3:00 in the Afternoon because you're barbecuing and Knock your barbecue over and whatever And um I mean some bears aren't scared Of anything including you and so he Doesn't care if you're sitting there in That tree stand or not but other bears Bears um if they have any inclination That you're around in any way shape or Form you're never going to see that bear And there's every there's all different

Variations in between um I think that uh I learned that a lot running dogs how Individual bears are I mean one bear and And it and it's not all tied to size Even one just average bear will stay on The ground and and hold his ground Against however many dogs you want to Put on him he's not going to climb a Tree no matter what I mean no matter What them dogs do um he's not climbing And then you'll get another bear a big Bear that's more than more than capable Of defending himself he'll climb to the Top of top of the tallest tree he can Find and hide his Head and it's all it's all up to the Bear I mean any bear is capable of Getting away from dogs Um it's just a matter of personality to A great degree and um and this is They're the same way at a they act the Same way at a bait you know some of them Will walk right in with full full know Full well knowing that there's somebody Around and others if you don't play Every card perfect you'll you will never See that be we got a bear right now that He's been hitting a couple of our baits For probably the last five years and We're pretty sure one of the guides Heard him kill a cub right up on the Hill right above the oh yeah or well a CL Well I don't know if the guy heard it or

Not um but either way um we're pretty Sure he was up on the hill going back And forth waiting for the hunter to Leave one day and killed a cub or got a Hold of it and mauled it anyway or Whatever because somebody heard a cub up There just balling like crazy and we Were trying to hunt this big chocolate Boar that's been on this bait for years But um I don't know I don't know if We'll ever get that bear cuz yep there I Got quite a few I think uh was 20 or 21 we thought I had this spot where it Was like there was always bears eating No matter what time of day and then Every time I sat in my ground blind Which I've already learned the hard way Ground blinds aren't great ideas when You're at a bait cuz usually the Bears Will sniff it and destroy it but we Rised it for the biscuit we really Blocked this ground blind in it was a Cool setup Leon I mean it was like 30 Yard from the barrel and I only got in It once the was up like the sun would Kind of set and I had about 45 minutes And it was pretty healthy hike so I'd Have to hike up change clothes and then I wait I mean I was patient and I'd slip In and I sat this blind I don't know Five or six sets and I was pulling my Hair out because every time I checked The trail camera it was like an bare Party at this bait food's getting

Crushed they could smell us so we Literally kept the ground blind there But just put a tree stand 25 ft above The ground blind and and I killed a bear The very next sit it was just that Little Nuance which is so interesting to Me but speaking of killing Bears where Do you tell your clients to aim Specifically archers we could talk about Rifle guys as well on a Bear well you know I My my feelings about it and from what I've seen over the years is they are not That much different than a deer or an Elk I'm going to shoot him basically in The same spot I would shoot a deer or an Elk I'm going to shoot him right in that Crease I'm not going to be that worried About even if I'm shooting a bow I'm not Going to be that worried about clipping The back of the shoulder you know Because the way that the way that those Of course we're built different than a Bear but still yet you know in the Middle of the shoulder if you're not low And you're not high even if you're into The shoulder meat you're not going to Hit you're not going to hit a bone you Know that scapula is clear up here you Know and it runs forward to the point of The shoulder and the point of the Shoulder where that socket is it's it's Right here you know if you shoot him Here you're not going to hit it um and

You know I mean yeah a liver hit will Kill but it's you know usually Especially when you're shooting a bow You you have to have a good enough blood Trail to find that animal and you know So Um I would Rather shoot a little bit maybe in front Of the lungs even or or or not hit the Lungs as well and the reason why I say That is because all of the plumbing that Feeds the heart the brains all the big Arteries and everything that that that You know keep the the carries blood is Going forward I mean there are a couple I'm I'm not sure exactly how I mean it Goes forward up and then you know you've Got those we you got the the the aorta Or whatever that runs down or no Whatever whatever the huge veins are That come right underneath the spine That go down into the the uh the back Legs but most all of that plumbing goes Forward and I've seen more Bears lost or very difficult to recover Because of being shot too far back than Anything I you were saying what I Thought you wouldn't say to be honest With you I'm surprised but I also Believe you you've just been there done That bears have thin skin can we agree With that like maybe some of the Thinnest they're thinner than an elk Yeah I mean it's it's thinner than an

Elk It's Pro possibly a little slightly Thicker than a deer but I mean they're They're a thin-skinned animal yeah and Then their hair is like a Sponge yeah and all that does is absorb Blood that you would hope to be on the Ground that you're not going to find a Lot of instances because it's soaked up Into the sponge like material called Hair bare hair uh so I do agree with you As far as like Man a pass through would be really Important on a bear to get two holes Versus one just because of the sponge Like behavior of the hair shooting them In the middle or kind of like off the Middle a little bit towards the shoulder Is still where I am to be honest with You but I have only lost Maybe yeah I've lost one bear for sure And I have the video footage where I Shot him at an elevated angle behind the Shoulder tight now because of the angle It's tough to like figure out what Happened and angles angles are probably The most important part of of that shot Placement you know I mean when you start Talking about picking a spot that spot Only applies if that bear is at the Exact angle that you're envisioning you Know I mean so if it's exactly 90 Degrees to you and you shoot it you know Six inches behind the shoulder yeah

That's going to be a good shot but if That bear is actually quartering towards You a little bit well now all of a Sudden you've clipped one lung and hit The liver a little bit y you know so I Tend to air towards I would rather hold Tighter to that front shoulder I'm not That worried about hitting that shoulder Blade or or that or the you know any Part of the shoulder bone um because There's a good amount of meat there in The if if your elevation is correct There's a good amount of meat there Before you're going to get to any any Type of bone that's going to stop an Arrow and you know the first bear I ever Shot with a bow it was very close I was Elk hunting and I was cow calling and This bear come wandering into the setup And I was just Like what the heck I've never shot a Bear with my with a bow in my life I'm Going to do this and um you know I held That right uptight in the crease of the Shoulder the bear was perfectly Broadside to me at about 10 yards or Less and um that bear took off and it Hit the ground once and then it went to Try to jump over a log that was about That high off of the ground and it Slammed into the log and it fell over on Its back and Went yeah and that was it I mean that Bear was Stone Cold dead

In two seconds what do you think about This man cuz you're the Outfitter you Got people they're your clients your Customers like you said pick a spot and I kind of laughed because picking a spot On a bear who's on a cat Road at 4:00 in The afternoon now that's easy I can see Where I'm hitting pick a spot at 7:30 P.m. when you have 30 minutes of Daylight left and the shadows and to to Identify a spot on a bear is like next It's just impossible and the last thing Is like especially you know when a bear Comes in and and they sit down and Whatever and it's just this big black Glob is all it is you know I mean you Can't identify where the back of the Shoulder is and the front of the leg or Anything do you tell your clients that Kind of give them a heads up well yeah You know and I mean we try to set our Baits up you know where where the guys Are going to be close Enough Um well so I don't use barrels on my Baits um I mean for one thing you know Packing all those barrels in and out of The woods twice a year well you know in For spring season out and then back in For policies and back out that would be You know that's a tremendous amount of Work on its own um so what I tend to do Is I I try to place the bait in a in a In an area where you know the bear is

Going to find the most comfortable spot To come in there and sit down and eat And so I try to get it to where that Bear is going to position itself at a Slightly quartering away angle to the Hunter in the Stand as he's settling in to eat so I Tell my Hunters you know as long as the Bear is Acting relaxed and everything's fine Then just let him come in and get Settled down and he's going to work his Way around into more than likely a good Shooting angle for you yeah um because I Feel like you know a slight quartering Away is you know um home run it's a home Run it should be yeah we started doing These interesting setups where we didn't Use barrels but we'd use you know like a Log pile or whatever and you know you do Try to figure out where the bear is Going to position himself to get into The food and sit uh but what we this is Crazy we we would want to like do Skyscraper tree stand setups like we do For deer like 25 35 fet up in the air But what we discovered was the margin For air on a bear in my opinion is just A little less the the vitals are Definitely just a little bit different And coming down with arrow trajectory so We started trying to find places where Maybe we put a tree stand instead of a 20 yard Chip Shot we'd like push it back

To that 30 3540 but we'd bring the tree Stand down to only 10 ft off the ground To try to mitigate any weird angle like The trajectory was a little more flat so That we could get better shots ideally Quartering away do you guys do that with Your stands well we don't we don't make Them particularly High um almost all of Our stands are ladder stands um and They're you know generally like a Standard 12 14 foot ladder stand Something like that maybe 16 um and you Know a lot of It is all it's all dependent on um wind Direction really more than anything you Know where's your prevailing winds and And where are your thermals going to be In the evening um you know if you've got Those two things working for you which Come sometimes it's hard to get them Both working for you at the I know when You get that one figured out yeah right Right but you know um you got to think About what's the wind going to be doing That time of the day so thermals is as Much of anything and and one of the Biggest things is you know where is that Be most likely to come from you know um So there's a lot to think about when You're trying to pick a really good Setup you know um you ever backtrack a Bait like after it's been established For 30 days and you got lots of bears And you ever just start backtracking

Your bait to see the kind of bear Trails They build up in 30 days well you know I Mean or when you're recovering a barri a Lot of times you'll a lot of times You'll end up going down that same Trail But yeah yeah you have or I mean I have And um yeah I mean they they will Typically beat in a couple of paths you Know it's going to be like either he's Either going to come down this Trail or He's going to come down that trail Either way he's going to be coming from The North or Northwest yeah you know Well you got you know we got a wind Coming out of The Southwest so how do you you know how Do you set that up so that you're going To get um you know that bear is going to Come all the way in without ever Smelling and one thing that I do Is I never have a hunter go all the way To the bait with me when I put him on The stand he always goes directly to his Stand the guide goes to the bait station Baits the station and leaves and you Know those bears are used to somebody Coming into the bait putting bait there And leaving yes and and so a lot of Times if if it's not a real educated Bear then once that's all done and he Hears the truck fire up and drive off or Whatever he's sitting up there on the Hill he hears all this going on or he's Sitting down there in the canyon he

Hears all that go on he's like oh dinner Is served here I come do you think Dominant Bears take dookies right next To the bait or is that just my Imagination you know Question well they're all different yeah They are you start dealing with it with A with an educated bear and he's Probably not going to do that but if He's really a dominant Bear um he's going to show up right After dark and if there is another bear There if another Bears beat him there or Whatever um he's going to push him off Of it immediately and he's going to take All he wants and then leave the Leftovers for whoever and then you know Like Like I said it all depends on how Educated the bear bear is and then it it Also depends on how scared of humans That bear is you know CU like I said They're not all you know I I don't Believe you know some of them aren't Scared of humans or dogs or anything Else I bet I had like that dude was a Cub killer he killed the little teddy Bear size Cubs the kind of what you want To pick up and cuddle he killed there Was two he killed one of them and then a Day went by and the mom and the little One were still coming into this bait This was many years ago MH and we picked Up on TR Cameron kind of put two and two

Together and when I I started hunting Right away as soon as he showed up and Uh the little guy came into the bait That night and started looking for food And he got one bite out one little Doughnut and then he looked around Dropped the doughnut and took off Running up the hill um opposite Direction he came in and I knew I knew That he was coming and um last I think It was two years ago I found another Cub This was a little bit bigger one dead on The side of a Logging Road um fantas Side I'm assuming it's just I don't Think people understand how ruthless Bores are to get SS have you guys run Across any of that I mean you know you Mentioned that one story oh you know I've seen a lot of evidence of it you Know um like I remember going to a bait One time and there was a small tree Right next to the bait and you could see Where all the way up to where it it was Too small to support a a an adult bear That tree was just ripped up one side And down the other and I'm just looking At the whole scene yeah what it what it Appeared to me was that there was a There was a cub that had climbed all the Way up in the very very top of that tree To try to get away from a boar and Whether it was the boar or the boar and The SA because I have seen situations Where a guy had a guy had a a really

Neat video one time of um AA a s put her Put her cub up this tree and Um and then uh I can't remember if I Think she got up in the tree as well and Then this bore come up the tree after Him and she ended up knocking him out of The tree you know whatever but you know It looked like something along those Lines that had gone on there you know I Mean the the tree was just demolished You know and you could see there was a Lot of a lot of uh a lot of activity in That tree I would have suspect that was Something was something along those Lines so do you think Bears um and I Know you're not a biologist but if I can Be frank I feel like you have so much Time in the Field it just I want to hear your Observations call it a theory or or Whatever but just do you think a lot of Bears will end up Denning in the same General drainages like they have like a This is a great place to den up because It will be remote it'll be south facing It'll get melted first it'll be good Like or do you feel like a bear just DS Wherever it's convenient any Observations on there or Theories I think that I think that in General yeah they Will a lot of them will Den in a similar Area and from from what I've seen Actually I think a lot of times it's on

More of a North or east face um because They don't want the ground to be getting Saturated every time that the Sun comes Out all you know or whatever um they Don't want to get flooded out every time We get a shinook and the snow starts Melting so on and so forth um I think in General on really good Berry years when We have a lot of huckleberries more of The Bears will down up High but I also think that bears have a Each bear within his territory there's a Good chance he's going to find a Particular place to go back to maybe not The same exact hole right but a canyon Or or a an exposure in a in a in a Certain Canyon that he's going to go Back to and years ago um up by Bonner's Ferry for multiple years in Row I would Find um about the first you know the end Of October first week in November when We started getting them first snows up In the mountains there was a really Really big black bear I mean the only I Mean I only assume it was the same bear Because this bear was you just don't see A whole lot of 6inch wide front pads Walking around in North Idaho you know Yeah and for like three years in a row After the snow would fly this bear would Walk up this one drainage and actually Where he was headed he was headed up Towards like Romano's Lakes okay and

Every year for like three years in a row After we got the first good snow I would Find where that bear would come out of Like the Highland Flats area down on the Bottom and and I would keep cutting him Crossing roads and he and in the last I Knew and I I believe he was headed up Near Romo or up into the headend to pack River to go Dan I guarantee it yeah That's so cool And um so I think they have a you know They have a place that they go back to And and once again I mean every bear is Different um you know a friend of mine Who he guided for Cody Carr quite a bit Um Adam Johnson's his name and um oh Yeah I think I ran into him at some Point yeah ad Adam well Adam actually Has uh he does some bear hunts at in the St M okay and um but like I said he Guided for Cody for years well he was Guiding a hunt for Cody over there out Of Thompson Falls okay and um they shot This bear that had a had a GPS collar on And eventually he was able to get the GPS data from that bear and it had been Collared the spring before in the same Little area where they killed it and This would be like just east of Thompson Falls up and on a on a big south facing Slope um where the bear was grassing up Well the following year they they Collored it right in that same Drainage and after it got done grassing

Up or whatever when it left out of there It went down and it crossed the Clark Fork River and it went over towards Murray it went through all that up over The top down into M by Murray Idaho then It worked its way south in along all That area between there and I90 Eventually it crossed I90 went on to the South Side then it went up over the St Joe divide and then it spent Huckleberry Season up just on the St Joe side of the Divide up in like the head into slate Cck and that in There and um then it turned around and When the Huckleberry started fading out It walked all the way up by Red IES went Over the top dropped down in towards Superior and then made a big loop out Through and went and DED right back in That same drainage where they had Collared it back in April or May just East of Thompson Falls just Northeast of Thompson Falls it's a hell of a circle I Mean that is a right wow right damn the Mard lens I mean if it yeah I don't know If he ever got on the I don't know if he Ever got on the south side of the St Joe River but he yeah I mean he that's cool Information though yeah it was Definitely interesting data to look at You know yeah they have like their own Built-in GPS really they know yeah now That being said though we also had a big Bear that was big enough we could kind

Of identify him and he was a unique Color he had a big scar on his side so On and so forth that lived right in the Drainage right across the road from my House okay and that bear was there all The time he's just residential he was Just resident I mean he Liv he lived Right there in that you know couple Drain now I don't know maybe in the fall Of the year he might have went somewhere Else but he was always in there in the Spring yeah And yeah I mean for years and of course One of them big old smart bears nobody We somebody should have got that bear But it just never quite happened got you I gotta well I know I know you drove all Away from Clark Fork I don't want to Take all your time but I do want to Touch on Mountain line hunting because I Think it's Um the perception of mountain line Hunting in my mind I thought it was Pretty black and white but uh in the Social media era people will send me Messages quite often I'm pretty good at Getting back to people although I Haven't in the last few days so I'm Going to be buried in messages but I got So many messages from the showing us Processing the meat and like Jeff and I Were just we just we knew that we were Eating Mountain line and I had so many People go I had no idea that people eat

Mountain lion and I just took that for Granted I just thought it was common Knowledge that yeah it's kind of like a Pork type Vibe uh it's the other white Meat haha joking but like um yeah you Can eat Mountain lines guys like it's It's a pretty good protein Source you Know I wouldn't rank it as good as bare Meat per se um because it just doesn't Have the fat content but it's still a Damn good lean protein Source it doesn't Yeah in in my mind it doesn't have the Flavor that bare meat has you know I Mean I have a you know bear and Elk I Guess are probably my two favorites okay And I I just like that flavor and I mean I I like deer too mountain lion to me Is I won't I won't call it Bland but It's not as Flav Flor f as a beef steak Or an elk steak or or I back that up a Th% you know um one of my favorite Things is bare stew I just I mean um and The more bare meat you put in it the Better you know I love it yeah I think That's great now I guess the other thing Is uh so I have my phone right here let Me read you some so you saw the film That Jeff edited yeah that was great and We did drop a podcast today about the Hunt and I just man I'm a pretty Transparent guy I've always learned that Being transparent I don't have to like Remember what I said I probably said What I was thinking and um the truth is

Always enough but like sure I let people Know hey I basically could I am I didn't Budget to go on a 7 to $10,000 Mountain Line hunt and I understand the going Rate I understand your expenses I mean Hell you had two guides yourself x Amount of dogs three trucks gas bill for All of them everyone's time I mean that Was just a one- day hunt right right and So people could try to do what I did but You'd have to live so close and you'd Have to be very convincing which I think I was on this instance but it doesn't Always work out that way um and I it's Just it is what it is like you're not Making you're not getting rich hunting Mountain lines bro I think you just Absolutely love your dogs it's pretty Parent and shout out to Jeff like Opening scene of that film you see Leon Giving his dog a hug and it's like for Me that film's about the dogs and the Fact that we were able to capture them Doing what they do like that was the Point I didn't want to just be like There's Dan he gets out of the truck Walks up to the tree shoots the cat Picks it up and holds it takes a photo He's a hero like no that's not the story The story is I don't know where the hell These dogs are going to end up we don't Know where we're going to be today and This is going to be exciting and at the End of the day dude I do want to kill a

Mountain line I want one less Mountain Line on the landscape there's plenty of Them so can you kind of help explain Maybe why you think mountain lion Hunting is legit with hounds well I mean Hot Seat you know like in a situation like That Um you know there's a lot that there's a Lot that has to come together for you Even though you know I mean it is true That if you've got if you've got a dog Dog that's been hunted quite a bit and Whatever and you happen to come along And there's a 10-minute old mountain Lion track and whatever it can look Pretty darn easy sometimes it's like he You turn the dog out he he Trails the Thing up there the cat's right there he Jumps it cat runs down the hill and boom It's treed now with that being said that Track where we turned on it up there and I never did give you that footage I was Going to No Worries but um where we Turned on it up there you couldn't even See the track anymore I mean we'd seen The track that morning but we wanted to Make sure that cat was still around There hadn't gone out the bottom and Whatever and we also wanted to look as Well as we could to try to make sure There weren't any wolves in the area Because Chris one of the guys that was There with me um that day he actually

Had two of his dogs killed by wolves Back in June just right couple drainages Well I mean yeah not far from where we Originally turned the dogs loose So we did some homework to make sure the Wolves weren't in there but long story Short is and we were waiting for you Guys you guys to get up there anyway Long story short is by the time we Turned those dogs loose you could not Even see that track anymore the wind had It was up on a wind blown Hillside and The track was gone now we stuck the Dog's nose in the in the snow right There and whatever and they picked up The scent and were able to go with it um But in the meantime and we're talking Hours and hours and that cat had been Walking the whole time obviously ly Because he went he Went two Drainages you know well he was in the Third major drainage before the dogs Finally jumped him and then that that Was at you know then he ended up all the Way down in the bottom of that all the Way down at the creek you know after Coming up and crossing the road and this And that and the other thing and and you Know one one thing I will say about Mountain lions in general is that um and Mountain lion hunting is that um these Cats are getting they're getting more Difficult to to uh to get caught and I

Attribute a lot of it to the Wolves you Know and I guess a good example of it is How that cat you know I think the dogs Had him Treed um after he crossed the road down There in the bottom the first time Because in total he actually crossed the Road down there in the bottom three Times but I think they had him treed up There and and apparently he had jumped Out which isn't all that unusual Lions Have always done that you know they'll Get they'll they'll tree Once get Nervous a lot of times when some when a Person gets there jump out run a little Ways but he didn't just run a little Ways and tree he went down there then he Came up hit the road ran down the Road went up the hill used the terrain To his Advantage you know whatever then Come back down off of the Hill hit the Tracks again ran back down the truck Track TR and then over the bank and um You know years ago mountain Lions I mean they they Weren't we didn't see that kind of stuff As much and we had a we had a Tom in That same area last year that multiple Times we would get him Treed we would walk in as soon as the First person got there he would bail out Of the tree and immediately work his way Into do the [Music]

The cat got out of there and then went And treed on the top of another cliff in About the worst spot it possibly Could and Um eventually got away in the rocks and Cliffs we could have shot the cat but we No way of recovering it it was a sheer Drop off to Lake Ponder Um and long story short I mean we ended Up having to lower my son down on ropes To get the two dogs out of the out of The kidding out no the next day well we We went up that night and we lowered him Over the edge about 150 ft to get the First dog and then went back the next Day And had to lower him down about 250 ft To the next ledge down from there to get That Dog and uh we had to get a boat to get The dog that had tumbled all the way to The lake the one we end up having to Take to the vet um so the dog the cats Have definitely learned to use the Terrain more um this and that and the Other thing um and I see them changing Over time and I believe the wolves are a Big part of that I think they have had They've had to figure out ways to get The Wolves off of their tail because if They can't get if they can't shake those Wolves it doesn't matter how many kills They make they're never going to get

They're never going to be able to To to to uh eat a deer before the Wolves Just come and take it from them so they Got to figure out some way to get those Wolves off their case and uh yeah I mean Years years and years ago I ran into an Outfitter um who told me about a working On a lion study and they had a cat who Had her they they had a collar on her And they were watching her and she made Kills several nights in a row she killed Deer and Every night the Wolves would steal her Deer kill and finally she went up into Some big rocks and cliffs and whatever And she stayed up there for several Weeks until the Wolves had been gone for A long time before she came back out of There um so I've known for a long time That you know the Wolves will harass the Lions and and and I believe the Lions if They have a pack of wolves hounding them Like that they'll end up killing a lot More than I mean normally a lion would Kill a deer and it would be there for a Week the deer it's not going to go out And kill another one tomorrow night Unless the Wolves take that one that Makes sense y so I think I think you Know um you know the that the presence Of wolves has definitely changed lion Behavior a lot and you know just going Out and catching a lion on a fresh track Here and there it can look easy but you

Know when you start looking to f focus On you know mature cats and this and That and the other thing and and a lot Of times conditions is what makes it so Difficult you know you'll you'll Uh you'll Have you know you'll get on a cat in the Morning and everything's going pretty Good the dogs are running it pretty good But you're way behind this cat this this Track's probably 12 hours old or this or That or the other thing and then about 9 Or 10:00 in the morning it gets above Freezing and pretty soon the snow starts Dripping out of the trees and it's Amazing How all that snow in that thick Timber Country that we have up here in North Idaho all that snow falling out of the Trees you know if you've got six inches Of snow in those tree branches and it All starts dumping out of there it can Just it can completely wipe a track out To where dogs can't even run it and it Can definitely make it extremely Difficult for the dogs um and then like I say the terrain Um it's cats always take you into the Rocks just like where you killed that Lion the other day you know right down In the crack I mean that cat fell off The you know I mean it was literally a Cliff on both sides of the creek right There where that cat ended up so um you

Know I wouldn't Say I I think that bears and bobcats are Definitely a little more challenging Than mountain lions have been Traditionally but the the lions are Getting tougher too that's interesting I Just I can't say I've ever done the Whole Hound thing with bears or whatever I definitely wanted to check a few boxes Uh just cuz I think there's a lot of Hunters that could be tempted to be Divided on Hound hunting a little and I Just wanted to speak to even non-hunters In that when you get an animal up a tree You can identify if it's male or female Absolutely that's step one okay we don't Want to shoot females right we don't Want to shoot females SS or cats the Other thing is maturation like yeah you Can tell by the stride we're looking for 40 in stride or plus but still no Guarantee and you get up there and you See a cat and it's a Tom and he's Soaking wet 90 lounds maybe we don't Want to shoot him you know and it is all Regulated you have an allotment there is A certain amount and um nothing's Guaranteed this has been a terrible Winter for what you do I mean how many On a normal year how many folks will you Take how like Mountain line Hunting anywhere From I mean Like you know I'd say on average

Probably About half a dozen a year you know over The years um and they're with you for Probably a week yeah 5 to seven days Five to seven days you know um you know Like this year I think In yeah in total um we were only able to Hunt with Oh three different guys that were came Out for extended saves but you know one Of them got three days of hunting in Three or four days of hunting in I guess And um we're finding a few cats but We so one of you know one of the things That makes It difficult um we finally located we Had found multiple Cats we actually put dogs on a couple of Them um and terrain got us on well one Of them it was terrain one of them was Private property and terrain um we ended Up pulling dogs off of the first couple Um and then we found a couple more and Then we finally found a cat that we're Like okay we're going to focus up on This cat this this is a cat worth worth Putting our time into trying to find and Um we got he went into a big big piece Of country and we just were hoping that He would you know make a right-and turn And or or double back you know or make a Hard left either way but if he just kept Going the direction he was going there's Nothing for a long long ways anyway um

We went up there we checked everything The first day he apparently and the Track when we found it was about 24 Hours old and it was late in the day When we found it it was um probably 3:00 In the Afternoon this was back in December so You're talking dark at 4:20 yeah you Know so no no chance of turning on a 24-hour old track with only an hour of Daylight left so we're just now we're Just waiting for this cat to cross again We got one more day of looking for that Cat and he did not cross any roads that Night or the following day and then it Warmed up to 40 some degrees and it was Going to rain 100% chance of rain half Inch of rain the next day and I mean Unfortunately I told the guy you know my Client I told him you know let's save Your time that you've got left go Home you can come back when we're going To actually have snow in decent Conditions um So weather and conditions is is in this Area anyway a big challenge to get all Those things to you can have you can Have great conditions and if The Cats Won't move or the right cat won't move Doesn't do you any good you can know Where a good cat is or you know I mean And and knowing where he is I mean we Might be talking about we know he's in An area that's that's 3 miles wide and 5

Mil mil long and built like an egg Carton so yeah we know where he is so to Speak we don't know what tree he's under We know he's in that piece of ground Somewhere Um but uh you can know where a cat a Good cat is but if you can't get any Decent conditions if it warms up to 45 Degrees and rains all the snow off and Whatever by the time it's been like that For two or three days you don't know if He's in there or not anymore because he Could have come out and walked went into Some other people piece of ground you Would know the difference um so there's Just there's a lot of different Challenges I guess one thing that was Interesting Le on I guess admittedly I Didn't fully understand this correct me If I'm wrong but like from the time you Let that dog your dogs out till the time They actually probably caught up to that Cat we said he went up and over a couple Canyons and you said he was hunting I Always thought Mountain lines were like Hunted kind of like we did like driving In to get to you we bumped so many white Tailed deer on the road and i' figured Well this is a high density area the Deer acrossing here I figure a mountain Line would just hang out Ambush seems Like this cat and maybe all cats do this I didn't know that but this cat was Literally like searching and stalking do

They just creep on deer until the time Is Right you Know I would say from from what I've Seen when they get in an area where There's a lot of deer and whatnot they Will I think lay in Ambush a little bit And and and you know kind of work that Area whatever um but to a great degree When a cat's hunting he's just walking Yep he's just walking and then when he Senses it when he senses the pr presence Of a of of an animal all of a sudden He's going to go into into to sneak mode Um But I guess I would say he hunts more The way I always traditionally rifle elk Hunted walk until you find the elk not Not even really hunting per se 90% of The time not in that hunt mode Um Where you know then all of a sudden you You go from You know once you once you or once that Cat knows there's an animal there then He's more like doing what you would do If You're stalking a white tail in the Timber creeping you know so on and so Forth but 90% of the time they're just Covering ground and waiting till they Just bump into an animal um and you know CU they have a few more tools to work With at least at least one more tool

That's very um Um effective compared to us in that they They don't have to see it or hear it They can smell it if it's there and I Don't know how much they use their nose But you can bet any wild animal if the Wind's blowing to them and another Animal is over there they're going to Know it and they're going to know if It's right there or not so I think Whether they see it hear it or smell it Um and I've even observed that with Lions that I've seen in the woods and I I haven't seen a lot of them that Weren't caught with dogs but I've bumped Onto a few Lions over the years and Um I remember about I don't know I was Within the last 10 years or so I was Walking up into a canyon I was actually Just scouting for Elk that Day and I'm just walking up this trail And I look up and I see this mountain Lion walking down off of the Hill you Know it's pretty rare instance that you Just walk up on a lion you just happen Stance both are walking through the same Little Area Um but I saw the cat And about that same time it saw me or it Knew something it it caught movement and All of a sudden that cat was just Walking along and all of a sudden that Cat just dropped to the ground and you

Know went into that sneak mode or Whatever and I'm standing there just as Still as I can be I'm dressed in full Camo whether that makes that much of a Difference to a mountain lion or not but The cat had not identified me either way And I wasn't moving and it just started Creeping down towards me and eventually I ended up because what it amounted to Was there was a big blow down log in Front of me and probably only from about My shoulders up is all that cat would Have been able to see from his Vantage Point and eventually once the cat Started sneaking towards me I decided That I was going to step up onto the log So that it could see me fully and be Able to identify me you know and then I Figured it would probably run off and if It didn't then I knew it was it was Actually stalking me which as soon as I Stepped up where the cat could see me Well it turned around and ran off right Um but I think you know that's a good Example of how That cat wasn't really that cat wasn't Sneaking through the woods when I first Saw it he's just walking along but the Minute he caught the Slightest movement out of his eye um he Just dropped and you know multiple times I've turned on cats that were on the Hunt and I you know I think a lot of Times when you're hunting them Tom those

Toms I mean they're Hunting Reading aha opportunity just as much as They're hunting food they got a two-fold Mission they've got a twofold mission Right right um but I mean they'll cover Tremendous amounts of ground and like That cat that track Was you know it wasn't brand new but it Wasn't it was it was made within the Last 24 hours when we turned on it and That cat still went Miles and Miles yes Sir you know um he covered three major Drainages you know and um and that was Just in a morning or whatever you know Yeah I still I was telling everybody Here we I took a bathroom break I was Saying man when you showed up with that Last dog that was fresh relatively Speaking and and I knew we were getting Close to the end of the day and I had Already like accepted the facts that hey Man we might not get a cat today that's Okay and you let that fresh dog out it's On film that thing jumped out of the Tailgate and was gone I I swear that cat Was treed within 15 minutes of that Moment it was insane yeah yeah well and You know I mean it might have it very Well may be that that would have that May have been part of the difference you Know those those dogs that had ran that Cat from where we originally turned Loose were getting wore out and that cat

Was playing games with them they didn't Want a tree yeah you know and Um and uh you know it could be it's it's Not often that I've seen what where a Lion actually wears the dogs out to the Point Um where they just give out that's more Of a that's more what bears usually do Bears will run and run and run until Every dog on the mountains you know just Exhausted and then the bear goes about His merry way and the dogs go home and Lick their Paws um yeah where you know that's Traditionally that's never been the way You know mountain lion hunting has gone But it's I've noticed over the years It's becoming more and more common for These cats to to just keep jumping out And they may not be able to continue Running for long periods of time but as Soon as they catch their breath they can Jump out again yep yeah now walking up To cats in the tree is is is pretty Interesting experience uh it's not for Everybody and I totally get that that's Cool but it is for me I'm into it man I I love watching your dogs work I love Where we were it's kind of like home for Me as far as I just feel really good About Predator management when you're in Your home area you know your core area You're like oh sweet okay cuz I just Know what mountain lions do what they're

Built for a couple questions for you Just rapid fire like do mountain lions Ever hunt Elevated like climb up in a tree yes Sir I can't say that I have ever Seen where they necessarily climb up Onto a into a tree or something Something or up onto a ledge to like lay An ambush um but I do remember catching A female lion one Time that uh it was a big female it was Big enough that I was like when I found The tracks I was like this is either a Big female or or or a Tom you know um The type of snow it was in it was really Spreading its feet out you know but I Could tell it was an adult lion I Thought well you know what the heck We'll catch it I was going up a trail on A snowmobile and I found where this lion Had caught this deer right above the Trail and and eventually killed it right Below the trail and Um it fed on it and trying to remember If it drug it back up the Hill or buried it right There but either way I went and got the Dogs and I put them on it and they ran Straight up the hill And it was very very steep right there And they just they only went up there About 150 yards and caught the cat and When I got up There um I was getting up near the near

The dogs I was about 30 or 40 yards Below them and all of a sudden I I mean I got to where I could see them and I Could tell that they did not have the Cat in a tree they had the cat in a hole In a cave oh great right and um all of a Sudden this lion comes flying over the Top of the dog's heads lands out in Front of me runs down the hill and glows Up in a fur tree right there dogs all Run down there and start treeing on it So I get down there and I start looking At the cat and I can tell it's a nursing Female well I never went up there and And looked in the cave to see I'm sure There were kittens in there yes sir but The minute I started to walk up that Hill that cat started looking really Stressed yeah and I was just like okay I'll just whatever um That being said I believe that cat was Just laying up there on its by by its Its den and looking down off of this I Mean it was almost virtually vertical And looking down off of it and an Unfortunate deer just happened to be Walking by underneath down there and it Just launched itself off of that off of That ledge and and caught that deer Right there and and of course killed it And whatever so um I mean they use the Terrain to their advantage I don't know If They I don't know if they

Necessarily consciously do that yeah I Mean I I do Know I think we don't think about it That much because with a bow or a gun or Anything else you can shoot any Direction you want um but out there you Know in natural setting per se Um you know if you get if you get an elk That's standing 50 yards on a steep hill Above you he's a lot more likely to Stand there than if he's 50 yards down a Steep hill from You because he knows you know if you're Well you know he's used to being hunted By mountain lions whatever a mountain Lion could cover that 50 yards downhill To an elk in no time at all it's going To take him a lot longer to run up it Yep and and the Cat knows that too so Anytime he can hunt from an elevated Position and I don't think they Necessarily Use trees so much as as or whatever um But I think that they they do tend to Kind of stay high on the hillside as They're hunting their way across it Because they know if they can come in Above something they got a better chance With a downhill run yeah you know you Can almost measure how much somebody's Hunted kind of by how many mountain Lines they've seen in the wild a little Bit uh I've heard guys talk about that As a measure as a metric uh I haven't

Done the math but I've I've been pretty Fortunate to see a lot of mountain Lions While hunting um I know in the early Days of turkey hunting right out of high School so early 2000s I lived in you Know about 15 20 miles north of here and I would run into cats all the time while Turkey hunting they'd be stalking my Decoys all sorts of so I got a lot Of tally marks for mountain lion sidings While turkey hunting in the spring um And then I was hunting with Kenton guy You went to high school with we were on His deer hunt in Nevada and I think we Had gotten there day before opener and We split up to just Scout for him try to Find him a deer and I I picked the Shittiest little cliffed out Canyon area To go glass from kind of hiked up there And popped over the top and there's a Big old Tom laying out in the sun we saw Each other about the same time about 10 Yards away and then since then I've seen Quite a few here and there but last year I was in on three Cubs and I was again In some rocky outcropping type stuff and These Cubs were playing and they were Waiting for Mom I assume she was out Hunting so I guess that's my question For you is one you kind of hinted to how Many you'd seen without dogs I'd like to Hear that and two how often do females Come into estris or breeding Cycles you know um so I've seen

Probably without Dogs roughly 15 of them you know single Cats I don't think I've ever Seen like a family group together it's Always been a single cat um you know and And talking about like you say you saw a Lot of them back when you started turkey Hunting I Think I think a lot of that is you know If you if you are uh if you're hunting In Washington right now in this era post 96 yes or whatever there's a lot you're A lot more likely to see a cat a Boatload dude you know just because they Are there are so many of them you see That mountain right over here I'm not Going to say its name but there the Closest one to us I got trail cameras All over that place for the last 15 Years and I have never seen so many Mountain lines on camera than this year And what's funny is almost every camera Is on a hiking trail because the deer Used the trail as well and so do the People if I could show these people what Big cat they just walked just had just Walked by before they freak freak out Yes 96 they shut down hounds right it Was right around that time 94 96 Somewhere I don't know Oregan Oregan Lost it like in '94 and Washington lost It in 96 or the other way around and Here's the news flash Leon you ain't Getting it back so that Hunters remember

That like once you cut something that Maybe you're not like doesn't affect you Or whatever circle around a couple years Later you will never get things back Like they don't go oh you know we Changed our mind Leon you can use hounds Here in Oregon California Washington it Ain't happening no I mean it and if it If it ever does actually change and we Start you know we have a reset on any of That type of stuff where we start Getting some of that stuff back that we Lost it would it's not going to be it's Not going to be in this political Environment or even with this structure Of government that we have now it would Take a it would take something so much Larger than a than a conservation Movement I mean even though there are Great conservation movements and I try To support as many of them as I can um And participate as actively as I can in You know in movements and groups and so On and so forth you're right I mean it In this current system unless there's a Huge shakeup We're Never Getting that Stuff back so we have to you know we Have to stick together and and support Each other and you know um like I said Before we Started um here I I really liked the the Conversation that you had with Jeff and Josh about you know let's find the stuff That that we can you know we have in

Common because we have a lot more in Common and I feel like I have something In common with most guys out there Because you know I I I run dogs I hunt With a bow I hunt with a muzzle loader I try to trap but I'm not I'm not good At it I'm I'm the world's poorest Trapper but I try Um but but either way um even if you're Just the guy that all you do is go Turkey hunting and white tail hunting And maybe go fishing once in a While you Still you still have I mean we're still All Brothers we're all still Hunters We're all still we all still believe and Even if you don't even hunt even if all You do is want to be able to go down to The creek and Fish if you you know we still all Believe In consumptive use of some sort and We've got a lot more in common than you Know than we have separate or Differences I guess be the right way to Put it and um yeah I it's it's easy To I think it's easy to say well that Doesn't matter to me because I'm never I'm never gonna go I don't I'm never Gonna go chase a bear with a Hound or You know I'm not I'm not uh you know I'm Not interested in in elun anyway or Whatever I mean that's kind of a poor

Example but Um but once they get done the way the Way the that this whole thing's you know Been going for a long time and I'm this Is no news flash to most people but once They get done taken away you know well Right now they're after cat hunting in Colorado MH you know once they get done With that they're not going to be done They're just going to move on they're Getting warmed up man it's a warmup They're just going to be moving on to The next thing I saw language in Washington's proposal to not have Mountain lion or bear hunting at all That they're they can they don't need to Be hunted they can be that's they'll Self-manage and then there just never That consumptive component comes into it So no man I think what you're saying is What I'm hearing is we need to be less Divided in the nuance and kind of more Bigger picture yes there's going to be People you don't like they make you mad They say dumb things or you just don't Agree with the way they go at it I get That that's welcome to be in a human but I also can appreciate what you're saying Where it's like man let's cut out all The noise and just distill it down to You're a hunter I'm a Hunter I don't Necessarily own hounds and love running Bears with hounds but I respect that you Do that and you're not signing up for

The Peta newsletter and you're not Spending your money on anti-hunting Movement or Propaganda okay let's where's our Common Ground cuz there's There there is there somewhere so thank You for bringing up that pod it did that Is probably our most downloaded episode And I can promise you that day that I Woke up I didn't go H I'm gonna do a Podcast today that's G to piss off a lot Of people I I promise you that wasn't my Intent I was really truthfully being Like speaking genuinely from the heart Like just kind of a c crying out for can We be United well and I I I think it I Think it goes even Beyond Hunters Because you know like you were saying That you saw a language written in a a a Washington proposal to do away with all Baron lion hunting gone Well I you know recently and I don't Think this I don't think this bill ever Got any traction and I sure hope not um But apparently there was a legislator in Oregon who had proposed a bill to make Harming any animal in any Way a felony that includes a beef cow That Includes anything anything and Everything so it would take Out you know basically even if even if You just want to protect your right to Eat

Meat we need to stick together I mean It's crazy as crazy as it sounds there Are actually people out there trying to Legislate that we can't have a Cow or a pig or a Chicken yeah no it's um strange times Right yeah right so I mean once again Though we need to stick together on you Know and I think we need to try to bring In people into and and and make them Realize how important it is that they Help us protect hunting because that's The front line just like you know hounds Hounds hounds and trap dogs dog hunting And trapping has been the front line for A long time once they get through dog Hunting and trapping then it's going to Be all hunting and then once they get Past all hunting it's going to come down To any animal Ownership any animal use or you know Like I said there was a bill and organ To make it a felony to harm an animal a Living creature yeah it's a slippery Slope so could we could we agree on this Man Like we Believe protein perfect protein source Complete protein not complimentary Proteins where you combine but like pure Protein we're meat eaters at the end of The day absolutely and uh some people Can choose not to be that's great but I Have a canine right here and uh to I

Happen to be like a performance strength And conditioning dude I am out for Protein perfect protein nonimmunized and Which is why when Jeff made that first Cut of our film shot last Monday Uh he didn't have the food part at the End and you can ask if you stand in the Corner I was like I'm not publishing This video until it shows the rest of The story and Jeff was involved in the Rest story he helped me skin it uh him And his wife took it home they got all The meat prep they brought over here we Grinded up Cougar Mountain line burger And we had it for dinner that night and I wanted that in the film and you guys That are Hunters listen up like be Prepared to do similar things when Sharing with the voting Community Because a lot of things are going to a Balab box now show those people not the Anti-hunters because there's always Going to be a percentage of them but the Majority of the voting population is um They're indifferent they're not they're Uninitiated and they need to know that This is us and we are out there for many Reasons but one of the main reasons is To feed our family and like I know that Gets overlooked but when I signed up to Go Mountain line hunting with you yes I Wanted to see your dogs work yes I Wanted to take a predator out of those Particular mountains but I also wanted

Mountain line back on my menu I've had It on my menu before I wanted it back in And that was like the you know what I Didn't do with that mountain line I did Not get it mounted I did not get a full Body mount I didn't do anything I got The meat off it that's what I was out to Do was to kill that predator and to eat It cuz I'm a editor does that make sense It makes sense to me yeah not I guess Not necessary to everybody well let's Wrap this up we've been chatting forever Um Leon the your website's Clark Fork Outfitters all onew yeah Www.clark Fork what What's the best way to get a hold of you What if somebody wants to just call you Up bend your ear and ask you some Questions maybe you want to get one of Your elk tags or maybe they want to cut Their teeth on some North Idaho elk Hunting is the best way to reach out Email call well yeah email call um we Don't have a lot of social media and we Don't I mean we're on Facebook we have There's a Facebook page for Clark Fork Outfitters um if you send us a message On that it might take a little longer For us to see it we will see it and we Will respond eventually um I one of the Reasons I don't have a ton of different Social media platforms is because I have A hard enough time just keeping track of You know two two email accounts between

My wife and I two Facebook Facebook Accounts between mine and my business Um two cell phones between the two of us And voicemails at the house on the Landline but we have shout out to the Landline give me that I missed those Days when you had to like call a girl up And her dad answered the phone you Remember that kids don't even know That's why I tried to I tried to keep my Daughter from getting a cell phone for Just as long as I could she how long did You Last she was about 12 I think 14 I don't Know maybe a little older than that 15 I Like that number way better was she 15 Before she got it yeah and she'd say my God I got to have a cell phone dad and I Be like for what and she was like well Because you know because if I'm walking Down the street I need to call you or Whatever I'm like honey there's only 500 People in this town it's not that big You can just you know walk back home or Send your brother home if you're hurt Too hard did you ever have a pager you Know I never did have a pager oh man I Had a beeper at one point yeah trying to Find a pay phone no but but anyway no we Have we have three phone numbers they're All on our website um our uh our email Address is on there um yeah we got a a Facebook page for the business and then I I also have have one for myself um

Yeah and any any ways good one one thing About it I don't check my voicemails Every single day I don't check my I Don't check my my Uh all my Facebook accounts necessarily Every day you're a good texter though I'll give you credit Shand a text the One thing I do yep if you want to if you Want to get a hold of me right away send Me a text I I look at my texts regularly Regular let me sell this for You Leon M You'll appreciate this here's my idea For you guys so if you if you're Unsuccessful at securing a tag cuz you Got States like Colorado where you used To just go by an overthe counter tag and They're probably going to go away otc's Watch uh Idaho wants to go to a drob all This kind of stuff if the fall is coming Around and you just have Deer tags and You don't have an elk tag maybe hit him Up for a fall Bear Tag whether it be Bait or run in hounds do a little bit of Both which is cool that's the cool thing About hunting with you is you could you Could sit a bait at night but you could Go do run the dogs during the day kind Of a combo well yeah and you know like We had a we had one guy Last fall who he came in um they all Hunted for two or three days Um and uh him and Cody got on a good Bull on a 6 by6 and got that bull Knocked down on the second or third day

And then um I think it was the fourth Day or whatever um he went out and sat On a bear bait and uh shot a pretty nice Chocolate bear on a bait so um you know He if it you know you got to kind of Decide where you want to where you want To put your time and and everything but There's multiple opportunities available Um to you know possibly hunt hunt Multiple species especially in September Yeah so or go do what I did man like get Yourself slotted for a mountain lion Hunt do a five or seven day just reach Out uh I'd love to see you get a Mountain lion I'd love to see you try Mountain lion it is good food and uh It's a great adventure watch the dogs Work but these are some blue collar People I mean the guys construction Worker and he comes from a a long line Of hunters and specifically your dad With the plot hounds and um I don't know I vouched for these people I met them They're awesome salce of the earth so Head over to the website if you guys are Interested hopefully enjoyed this Conversation let us know what you Thought and remember separation is in The preparation we'll catch you on the Next One For

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